Does anybody pull with the Vortec 8.1?

[kimswang]

In their truck? I just got a deal on a chevy dually with a 8.1. For the price difference from a diesel I can buy fuel to the truck for the rest of my life, problem is, is it strong enough? Any obvious problems? If it is as good as the vortec 454, I think I found my dually. I have to derate my trailer to 13K, but that can be done easily and is just paperwork.

[dicudmore]

In their truck? I just got a deal on a chevy dually with a 8.1. For the price difference from a diesel I can buy fuel to the truck for the rest of my life, problem is, is it strong enough? Any obvious problems? If it is as good as the vortec 454, I think I found my dually. I have to derate my trailer to 13K, but that can be done easily and is just paperwork.

Kim the 8.1 is a pretty strong motor...combined with the Allison trans you'll like it :D
its lightyears better than the 454...seriously, night and day! :thumb:

[TooMuchFun]

I had one in my Suburban 3/4 ton. Traded it for the extended cab 3/4 ton with the diesel after owning 4 previous and being really happy with the Chevy product and their gas engines. I was relatively happy with the vortec engine and it did perform well with towing, but the mileage really dropped out the bottom when towing.

The duramax diesel and the allison tranny is light years difference on the towing situation and the mileage really does not change at all regardless of tow, no tow, etc. I'll never go back to the gas vortec given the substantial difference.

I got 5-7 mpg with the gas when towing and 11-13 driving about. The diesel, even with the lift gets 13+ towing and 13-15 driving about.

Main variable, even if you save on the up front price, in my mind is the incredible performance diff.

My .02

TooMuchFun

[sandman0_0]

The torque out of the diesel has no comparison with the gas. TMF is correct. My diesel way out pulls my old gas engine and the milage does not change wether its loaded, empty,up hill down hill doesn't matter. My old gas 454 chevy labored up long hills. Going to Havasu it was beggin for mercy heading up the hill towards Needles, My diesel doesn't even know its going up hill. I think the life span is on diesel will way out weigh the difference as well. I have seen diesels with outragous high milage and still preforming strong. With a boat as big as yours you should really try out the diesel.

[panic button]

The fleet of Ford F350's diesels my dad has are over 400K, they are the 7.3L range from 2001 to 2003, think he has about 10 of them. The only problems he has had is torque converters going out...

[kimswang]

Thanks for the responses. Yeah, no doubt a diesel got more torque. My situation however does not really call for the need of better mileage to save $$, and if the 8.1 has enough torque to get the boat home like my current 454, I am happy. In 2005 the 8.1-liter gasoline V8 produced 340 hp and 455 lb-ft of torque and the 6.6-liter turbodiesel produced 300 hp and 520 lb-ft. Not really that much difference. I drive about 2000 miles a year, going to work maybe once a week and my 20 or so trips to the lake. As you see it will take me 200 years to reach 400K on a truck, and the better fuel mileage will never offset the variable cost of fuel vs. initial purchase price. I also agree with a 7.3 Ford being one helufa engine, however, the 2000 F-350 sells for the same price as a 2005 8.1 with 200K fewer miles on it. For some it still might be a better option, but I think for me, a 8.1 might be a better option. What do you think?

[kimswang]

Kim the 8.1 is a pretty strong motor...combined with the Allison trans you'll like it :D
its lightyears better than the 454...seriously, night and day! :thumb:

That's really good to hear. I am very happy with my 454 Vortec as it is. It will pull my sled up Lake Mead Blvd (the hill before you can see Las Vegas comming from the lake..) at 55MPH, if the 8.1 does it better I am more than happy with that.

[dicudmore]

That's really good to hear. I am very happy with my 454 Vortec as it is. It will pull my sled up Lake Mead Blvd (the hill before you can see Las Vegas comming from the lake..) at 55MPH, if the 8.1 does it better I am more than happy with that.

agreed with what they all said...the diesel is definitely a STRONGER tow rig, but I'm with you...for your purpose the 8.1 will fit the bill great :thumb:
I had a customer in CA that was towing a 30' Cabin cruiser with an 8.1 and he LOVED the truck...lot of the havasu rats are using them. Havasuluvr has an 8.1 dually that he's been towing his 29' Shockwave with for years and a big toy-box trailer.
I went from a 3500 duramax to a 454 Suburban myself. While I don't love the way the Sub tows by comparison, it does get the job done.

[kimswang]

agreed with what they all said...the diesel is definitely a STRONGER tow rig, but I'm with you...for your purpose the 8.1 will fit the bill great :thumb:
I had a customer in CA that was towing a 30' Cabin cruiser with an 8.1 and he LOVED the truck...lot of the havasu rats are using them. Havasuluvr has an 8.1 dually that he's been towing his 29' Shockwave with for years and a big toy-box trailer.
I went from a 3500 duramax to a 454 Suburban myself. While I don't love the way the Sub tows by comparison, it does get the job done.

I agree that in stock form the diesels are better but keep in mind that a 8.1 can get 800 ft/lb of torque with a blower kit. My 454 Suburban pulls just fine but is under capacity of 2000lbs with my boat. I beefed up the brakes and as long as I taker into account that I have a big boat in tow, it works just fine. I will check out the duallie tomorrow.

[PUMP 'HER']

So your going to add a blower for another $4-5k and stress that engine that much more and suck that much more fuel just to get you where the diesel starts out? Keep in mind if you make that move here to LA the long haul across the desert ain't no joke. Also diesels have the jake brake dealio to help with the stopping right? Idunno Kim but I say http://www.masondixontdc.com/PowerStroke_sm.gif is the way to go. Plus resale should be higher if you decide to get out of it.

[kimswang]

So your going to add a blower for another $4-5k and stress that engine that much more and suck that much more fuel just to get you where the diesel starts out? Keep in mind if you make that move here to LA the long haul across the desert ain't no joke. Also diesels have the jake brake dealio to help with the stopping right? Idunno Kim but I say http://www.masondixontdc.com/PowerStroke_sm.gif is the way to go. Plus resale should be higher if you decide to get out of it.

No, I just stated that a blower kit will give the 8.1 twice the torque of a stock diesel and only has 65 ft/lb less to start with. With the braking action I 100% agree, it is better (but not $20K better). Problem is that a powerstroke is so much more expensive and not really worth the extra $$$ when you drive the limited amount that I do. I just feel like being legal and get a truck that will handle my boat better than what I have now for the least amount of $$$. A diesel excursion would have been my first choice, but it is illegal to tow my boat with it. Also, so many folks swear to this duallie thing that I think it might be something to consider. If I found an F-350 duallie 2005 or newer with a diesel and 40K miles on it for less than $20K, you can bet I will go and look at it. I am not a Ford or a Chevy person, I am after what gives me the most bang for the buck while being legal and safe. Since an automatic is prefered I am not looking at Dodge, due to the fact that I have heard too many horror stories with their tranny's. Regardless, thanks for the input. All inputs are highly appreciated as I plan to keep my next truck until retirement...

[panic button]

New 08 F350 4x4 CC Dually Lariat Diesel's $39485.00 at Dobbford.com... 877-553-6403 tell them you saw the ad in Mid-South Horse Review.

[kimswang]

New 08 F350 4x4 CC Dually Lariat Diesel's $39485.00 at Dobbford.com... 877-553-6403 tell them you saw the ad in Mid-South Horse Review.

2005 C3500 2x4 Dually LS $19.000,- That will leave me with $20K worth of gas money for my truck and boat - easy choice. But with that being said, that is a VERY good offer. I was looking at an F-350 2008 here in town 18K miles 2x4 Lariat, moonroof, shortbox for $33.333,-.

[STV_Keith]

a 8.1 can get 800 ft/lb of torque with a blower kit.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that. And 800 is no problem for a diesel. Hell, my little I-6 is over 1000ft-lbs. For your application, the gasser is probably the better rig, since you won't be driving it much. Make sure the interior is comfy though - for those extra long drives (more seat time because it will be slower up the hills). :D

[kimswang]

Make sure the interior is comfy though - for those extra long drives (more seat time because it will be slower up the hills). :D

If you see that as my only worry, I know what I am going for. Keep in mind I have two Viper seats in my Sub that is NOT going with it...

With respect to the 800 ft/lb, read the latest Trucking magazine... Even though diesel engines are very popular now, a blown big block is still a powerfull engine. Also, if I want to go fast I just go to work - 409.000 lbs at 500+MPH..:D

[kimswang]

Well, I went to check it out and didn't like it. Good deal but I don't need a tailgate looking like a banana and a bed that is rougher than lake mead in the spring. It had all the options I was looking for (posi trac and 4,11) but the interior was the ugliest color I've ever seen. Oh, well, still looking I guess....

[Rude]

i've been waiting for someone to start thread like this one. i've been asking myself the same questions. great thread so far. good luck with the search kim.

[hkunz]

Since this thread is about towing and the merits of diesel over gas or vice versa, I thought I'd throw my gas towing experience in - the blower motor would be nice, but could the tranny REALLY handle the extra torque over the one that came stock? Next question - could the cooling system REALLY handle the extra heat?

Since the efficiency (or whatever the precise term is) of an intenal combustion engine is less than 100%, but is basically close across the board (gas, oil, kerosene, etc), any additions in power will require an addition in fuel, and in heat generated by the combustion of that fuel. (I'm no engineer, can barely spell it, but I know there's real science behind all this and I'll get there)

The factory makes a cooling system for the vehicle that fits what it thinks the needs will be - they make massive runs on test tracks in hospitable locations like Yucca and California City to test those cooling sytems and research new technology to make them better. That said, they sell most of the vehicles in Spokane, or Frostbite Falls, or Cleveland, and so don't overbuild them for people who live in warmer climes such as Bakersfield or Vegas or Havasu. While the vehicles will do just fine in our wonderful sunshiny area, if you use major power adders like blowers to enhance motor's performance you will cause more heat to be generated than the factory engineers planned for, and the factory cooling system may not be up to the task of rejecting that heat.

This last is the stuff I learned - here's how I learned it:

My last motorhome was 460 powered with a C-6, a huge by large radiator, three electric cooling fans, an engine oil cooler, and three trans coolers. I also added a mister system with 12 nozzles by the time I sold it. I added Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers and a free flowing dual exhaust with crossover. We'd tow the boat or the Jeep on its trailer. Every time we did, it overheated. It wasn't the rad (we checked it and checked it), it just didn't have the capacity. We ended up putting three transmissions in the RV, they got killed with the heat and overload, although we modified the trannies as much as possible (new planetary shells with more gears, different steels and clutches, etc). The motorhome was fine on its own, or when towing in winter.

OK, now on to the next example - our Grand Cherokee, which we used to tow across the dez from Bakersfield to Havasu. We were at half the rated tow capacity, but I can just about repeat everything I said above, including the three transmissions. (No misters) It still runs just fine, but can't handle the long tow, and we keep it at Havasu for running around town and moving boats. (I built a front reciever for boat/jetski movement).

The new RV and the new truck are both Cummins powered, and have not had a hint of overheating no matter what we tow, no matter what the outside temperature is, no matter how far we tow. We didn't have to modify the engines or transmissions, so I can concentrate on modfying the boats and Jeep.

My $0.02

[kimswang]

i've been waiting for someone to start thread like this one. i've been asking myself the same questions. great thread so far. good luck with the search kim.

Next time you do it!:smashfreak: :D

There is a wealth of knowledge and experience on this board and nobody here should be afraid to ask ANYTHING. I have learned so much from this board and a couple of others (scremandfly / OSO) that I am about ready to take another degree in something it feels like. I just like to thank all you guys that inspire me to continue to build what I see as my dream boat / rig. Rest assured that I also respond with whatever input I can at any given time to help anybody else out.

:Thanx::Thanx::Thanx:

[Trouble Maker]

I sold my big 2006 Dodge diesel and bought a 3/4 ton Suburban just to tow the boat with. The Suburban has the 8.1 and 4.10 gears...AND I must say it tows just about the same as the Dodge did (although the Dodge did have 35" tires, but it also had 4.56 gears to compensate for that).... And, other than getting crappy gas mileage, the suburban has performed beyond what I expected...and for a much lower price tag.

[TooMuchFun]

I went through 5 suburbans over the years ... last one similar to TroubleMakers. When I had 4 kids and two big dogs in tow, the 'burban was the best vehicle. Especially in snow and etc. when visiting family in the winter in god knows where ... the 3/4 ton also has all the extras re: towing needs ... rear transmission cooler and etc.

Now that it is just me and the wifey, and one kid with just two more years of HS, I get the same comfort of the suburbans minus the third seat and inside back storage area for the dogs + way better gas mileage and a noticeable difference when hwy towing or in steep or difficult areas (like crappy ramps with potholes or sand and a 4 wheel drive need). Also with the lift I back the boat right in and don't need someone standing outside telling me when the exhaust pipe or the rear end is submerged ... used to rust out a few pipes and rear bumpers over the years that way.

If the kids were still little, or teenagers, and always around I would have stuck with the 'burban and eaten the crappy mileage, but without I get a bit of 2nd childhood with the big lifted truck and I like the diesel performance.

Jury is not out yet, but with how hard I drove those suburbans over the years within 50,000 miles every one tended to either have a tranny or something else major go bad ... I always bought the extended warranty to where I thought I would trade and then traded them before it expired. My sense from others is that the diesel will go the distance ... 150-300k or so, something the suburbans did not do, and I put alot of miles on my vehicle ... truck is only 18 months old and I already have over 40,000 miles on it.

Just some more .02

TooMuchFun

[kimswang]

I sold my big 2006 Dodge diesel and bought a 3/4 ton Suburban just to tow the boat with. The Suburban has the 8.1 and 4.10 gears...AND I must say it tows just about the same as the Dodge did (although the Dodge did have 35" tires, but it also had 4.56 gears to compensate for that).... And, other than getting crappy gas mileage, the suburban has performed beyond what I expected...and for a much lower price tag.

That is what my wife want me to get. Looking at a 2004 right now. I have also heard very good stories about that SUV, and nothing bad except mileage. It will also make me legal with its 12K lbs tow limit, so I might just end up with another Sub.

[Trouble Maker]

I just bought mine last May. I picked it up for $17K, it's a 2001 with a whooping 33k miles and every possible option they had at the time.

[kimswang]

I just bought mine last May. I picked it up for $17K, it's a 2001 with a whooping 33k miles and every possible option they had at the time.

That was a killer deal. The one I am looking at right now is a 2004 Yukon XL also with every option, XM, Onstar, Moonroof, autoride, quad seating..... they are asking $18K. Will check the bank tomorrow.

[kevnmcd]

....and I put alot of miles on my vehicle ... truck is only 18 months old and I already have over 40,000 miles on it.

Just some more .02

TooMuchFun

My duramax is 21 months old and I have 55K on it! My last vehicle was a '96 suburban with the 454 vortec in it and it was falling apart at 180K when I traded it in on this one. I am hoping that the duramax will well surpass that!

I originally bought the diesel for many reasons....average mileage (both towing and non), towing capacity, longevity/reliability, and price of fuel. Other than the price of fuel costing me an arm and a leg these days, I have not been disappointed at all!

With that being said, I also was very pleased with my suburban. It towed great, had lots of seating for kids and friend and was very comfy on trips. The thing I didn't like was the unreliability as it got up in mileage and the gas mileage.

Kim - I think for your needs, if the suburban has the towing capacity and fits in your price range than I say go for it! You won't be disappointed. Just my .02.

[Seas]

Kim,

We have a 2002 Yukon XL with the 8.1. Use it a a "weekend warrior", pulling boats, snow skiing, hauling loads that won't fit in our everyday cars, etc. Currently has around 39,000 miles. No problems pulling our boat up the Grapevine, Cajon Pass, Baker Grade, Lake Tahoe, grade out of Laughlin to Hwy 95. Of course we are towing a much lighter load than you are. Our hitch isn't rated for your boat but you are welcome to check it out next weekend.

Wes

[TooMuchFun]

Agreed with Kevnmcd ...

TooMuchFun

[kimswang]

My duramax is 21 months old and I have 55K on it! My last vehicle was a '96 suburban with the 454 vortec in it and it was falling apart at 180K when I traded it in on this one. I am hoping that the duramax will well surpass that!

I originally bought the diesel for many reasons....average mileage (both towing and non), towing capacity, longevity/reliability, and price of fuel. Other than the price of fuel costing me an arm and a leg these days, I have not been disappointed at all!

With that being said, I also was very pleased with my suburban. It towed great, had lots of seating for kids and friend and was very comfy on trips. The thing I didn't like was the unreliability as it got up in mileage and the gas mileage.

Kim - I think for your needs, if the suburban has the towing capacity and fits in your price range than I say go for it! You won't be disappointed. Just my .02.

I think you are right, probably the best vehicle for the $$$ for me. And you know me when it comes to mods, expect a different Yukon...:D

Kim,

We have a 2002 Yukon XL with the 8.1. Use it a a "weekend warrior", pulling boats, snow skiing, hauling loads that won't fit in our everyday cars, etc. Currently has around 39,000 miles. No problems pulling our boat up the Grapevine, Cajon Pass, Baker Grade, Lake Tahoe, grade out of Laughlin to Hwy 95. Of course we are towing a much lighter load than you are. Our hitch isn't rated for your boat but you are welcome to check it out next weekend.

Wes

I will most definately do that, thanks..

Agreed with Kevnmcd ...

TooMuchFun

I agree too, might get it before Desert Storm if all the cards will fall into the right places.

[panic button]

My duramax is 21 months old and I have 55K on it!

My truck just turned 2 years and I only have 17K on it, & that included a 3K trip to FL...
:headshake:

[sandman0_0]

There is a really nice GMC I think its a "Top Kick" on Farm off Buffalo. I went over to see a friend and seen it for sale in front of someones house Friday night. You should check it out. It looks like a nice truck. ( We took 95 to the 215 exit that turns in to Buffalo then right on Farm. just a mile or two down the road. ) I never go over to that side of town so I dont know my way arround.

[kevnmcd]

I think you are right, probably the best vehicle for the $$$ for me. And you know me when it comes to mods, expect a different Yukon.

Can't wait to see the mods! I wonder if they will be custom ones? :chin_scratch::thumb:

[panic button]

Kim-

There is a 01 F350 CC 4x4 Dually XL model diesel steel wheels 140K miles white, not the prettiest bed, vinyl bench interior at the sale lot where I work today $9800.00

[Rude]

what a about diesel excursion? i have no idea what the tow rating is on them though.

[kimswang]

what a about diesel excursion? i have no idea what the tow rating is on them though.

I used a 2000 Excursion to get my boat on the east coast, hence my interest in a 7.3, loved that truck. Problem is - max tow capacity = 11.000lbs...

[kimswang]

There is a really nice GMC I think its a "Top Kick" on Farm off Buffalo. I went over to see a friend and seen it for sale in front of someones house Friday night. You should check it out. It looks like a nice truck. ( We took 95 to the 215 exit that turns in to Buffalo then right on Farm. just a mile or two down the road. ) I never go over to that side of town so I dont know my way arround.

Nice trucks but... way over rated and three times the money as well as no room for the dog compared to a suburban...

[sandman0_0]

Nice trucks but... way over rated and three times the money as well as no room for the dog compared to a suburban...

I drove by the truck tonight. It is a Chevy C4500 4 door (Very Big) Duramax. The # on the truck is 756-7882, I looked at for a couple minutes and I am sure you are right about the price. This thing has a custom paint job and looks really nice. It is set up as a hauler, probably pulled a race trailer or something like that.

[kimswang]

Well, this thing rolled in today. 12000lbs towing capacity and every bell and whistle you can think of. So far it is looking awesome, the guy who delivered it got 16MPG going 80MPH from ABQ. I will test it tomorrow with the boat behind it and take some more pictures. My previous Suburban was a neccesity so I could get to the lake, this thing is just awesome. The mexican air conditioning system over the doors is comming off, just give me a day or two...:D However, the Las Vegas HotBoat sticker is on already!

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/42127/2661719530103325923S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2661719530103325923bvqBnL)

[kimswang]

Looks better with a boat behind it, doesn't it? This thing pulled like a charm, the autoride suspension is far better than expected, the brakes are so much better than the old sub I don't have words for it, (the rig will actually stop better than my old sub did by itself, no kiddin..)but when it comes to power the old sub had just as much (keep in mind I have not done my mods yet so it will change...). Anyway, here is a pic with the boat behind it as I was heading out for some testing / diagnostics on my engines.... Ended up seing Gary (TM) and Sy (38 Baja named Revolver..) go out while I was testing so I made a run to sandy as well. Also briefly saw AnchornPlay and it was awesome passing those 25' doing 10mph due to waves while I passed doing 50mph with a cold one on the table..... Did I mention I love Scarabs...???:D
http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/36564/2217277540103325923S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2217277540103325923ntzhLX)

[Rude]

how would the v10 triton from ford pull compared to the 8.1 chev? i hardly ever hear anything about the v10.

nice looking rig kim, congrats on the purchase!

[STV_Keith]

When you're ready for some power for it, call Steve at TTS in CA. He makes probably the best GM gas programmer on the market. Little known compared to the big boys like Superchips, etc, but when GM has a SEMA project, they go to him. He also has the quickest Duramax trucks in the country programmed with his stuff.

310-669-8101. Tell him you're boating buddies with me and he should hook you up. :)