What kind of truck would make it legal to...

[kimswang]

tow my boat? I have lately played with the thought of getting another truck and start towing legally. Not just safe, but legal and fully covered with my insurance and no worries. My Suburban is now perfectly safe with new high performance brakes on the truck as well as new trailer brakes, but the rating of my truck is 1600lbs below actual weight.
I thought of getting a GMC 3500 Crew Cab Dually. Well, after some investigation it turns out that a GMC 3500 only can tow a trailer with a rating of 7500lbs without a weight distributing hitch and a trailer with a 13000lbs rating (regardless of actual weight) if the WD is mounted. Well, kinda dropped that idea and started looking around. A Ford F-350, newer than 2005, can tow 15000lbs regardless of rating of the trailer. Somebody told me that a Ford also got something written in a supplement that states it needs a WD hitch as well if actual trailer weight is more than 8000lbs. Does anybody here know? I am looking for stated facts and not what works for most. I have also learned that you need a "J" rating added to your drivers license if you tow a trailer with a rating of more than 10.000lbs, regardless of its actual weight.

Has anybody else done some digging into this and have something to add, something I missed, experience with the "J" rating, etc, etc...

My boat and trailer is 11.660lbs dry and would approach 14.000lbs full of fuel, water, ice, beer, and gear. Any help to get me 100% legal, documented and certified will be highly appreciated.

[Rude]

have you checked into the ford 450 or chev 4500? i thought i had heard the ford was rated at 19k. you could also step up to a class 8 tractor (peterbilt, kenworth, etc). that would tow anything you wanted :) you can pick up a used one for the same price as an HD pickup. i believe you could even register them as a motor home and not have to mess with the commercial scales , but i'm not possitive on that part.

[kimswang]

have you checked into the ford 450 or chev 4500? i thought i had heard the ford was rated at 19k. you could also step up to a class 8 tractor (peterbilt, kenworth, etc). that would tow anything you wanted :) you can pick up a used one for the same price as an HD pickup. i believe you could even register them as a motor home and not have to mess with the commercial scales , but i'm not possitive on that part.

Although cool looking, I am trying to stay off the big rig thing. An F-450, still requires me to use a WD hitch as far as I know right now.

[just another payment]

DODGE RAM 3500

[kimswang]

DODGE RAM 3500

What is the Documented GCVW?
Documented Towing Capacity with WD?
Documented Without WD?
Can their tranny (automatic) keep up with towing 14K?

I have an offer from a neighbor here on one of those, but I am not sure it will make me legal, and I am not too sure about their tranny. :dunno:

[just another payment]

Trans will not be problem, especially on the 2008 with the 6 speed auto, web site states GCVW 24000 LBS TOW CAPACITY 16350 WITH WD 12800 W/O WD also depending on equiptmnet and cab configuration and bed size will make a difference. Go to web site and check specs and do comparisions to different set ups :

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/ram_3500/durability/towing/

[panic button]

2006 & newer F350 CC dually with towboss package have 15K with 1500# tongue weight. This is WITHOUT a WD hitch. I checked all my documentation and there is nothing stating anything lower unless you use the 2.5" to 2" adapter in the receiver, then it drops to 12.5K. Use a gooseneck and it's 28.5K

[kimswang]

2006 & newer F350 CC dually with towboss package have 15K with 1500# tongue weight. This is WITHOUT a WD hitch. I checked all my documentation and there is nothing stating anything lower unless you use the 2.5" to 2" adapter in the receiver, then it drops to 12.5K. Use a gooseneck and it's 28.5K


There should be a supplement to your manual that actually states that you have to use a WD hitch if trailer weight is above 8K, according to the folks on OSO. If you find it please let me know what it actually states. GCVW is 23.500lbs according to what I have dug up, do you have different numbers there as well? I thought this was going to be easy....:Thanx:

[kimswang]

Trans will not be problem, especially on the 2008 with the 6 speed auto, web site states GCVW 24000 LBS TOW CAPACITY 16350 WITH WD 12800 W/O WD also depending on equiptmnet and cab configuration and bed size will make a difference. Go to web site and check specs and do comparisions to different set ups :

http://www.dodge.com/en/2008/ram_3500/durability/towing/

You are right, a new all decked out dually will do it as long as I stick to Ford or Dodge. However, I'm just a poor little fisherman and have no intentions of buying a 75K rig to be used for my lake trips only. I have seen some 2006 F-350's priced at $21K and I think that will be more suitable for my use and financial situation. My neighbor is selling his 2004 Dodge 3500 CC Dually 2WD for $22K but I am not sure that one will be legal, can you find out? I need a GCVW of 23.500lbs (assuming 8000 for the truck) and a towing capacity of 15.000lbs.

[just another payment]

HERE ARE A COUPLE OF ARTICLE , REMEMBER THE 2ND ARTICLE IS A 4X4 2005 WHICH IS THE SAME AS A 2004 AND THE 2WD IS A LIGHTER VEHICLE BECAUSE OF NO FRONT RUNNING GEAR.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102426/article.html

http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/RT2005DodgeRam3500.htm


YOU MIGHT ALSO WANT TO CHECK THE DIESEL FORUMS AND THE DODGE FORUMS FOR INFO

[kimswang]

YOU MIGHT ALSO WANT TO CHECK THE DIESEL FORUMS AND THE DODGE FORUMS FOR INFO

I have checked a lot lately and it looks like most people are towing illegaly with extremely few being 100% legal as well as covered by their insurance while towing. I will be looking for a F-350 newer than 2005 and until I can find a killer deal on one I will join the masses and just keep on towing illegally. Most of us feel safe and think that we are in compliance with the regulations and our truck limitations, this is so far from the truth it is scary.

[panic button]

Gooseneck...

[hkunz]

I didn't do near the research you did, Kim, but I did consult with my buddies that have Class "A" licenses. They drive Dodge Ram 3500s. OK, so it's only three guys, but it is 100% of the guys I know that have the pro license and use it daily. When they tow whatever - fifth wheel flatbed, fifth wheel RV, car trailer made of lead with extra-heavy Jeep onboard - they use the Ram. Therefore, that's what I bought. My boat and trailer aren't nearly as heavy as your setup (4400# boat dry, trailer unknown, but probably 2000#) but the Ram handles it fine. My biggest problem towing is remembering that I have it back there so I can take corners wide.

Assuming Extreme set the trailer up for 10% tongue weight, the roughly 650# sets the rear of the truck down about an inch from unladen. Would your nearly twice the weight set it down more? I don't know. Can you borrow a truck for testing? Will the seller let you try it out?

The truck will be expensive, no matter how you look at it, so a little care now will pay over the years.

[kimswang]

Gooseneck...

To tow my little fishingboat to the lake - not me!

[kimswang]

I didn't do near the research you did, Kim, but I did consult with my buddies that have Class "A" licenses. They drive Dodge Ram 3500s. OK, so it's only three guys, but it is 100% of the guys I know that have the pro license and use it daily. When they tow whatever - fifth wheel flatbed, fifth wheel RV, car trailer made of lead with extra-heavy Jeep onboard - they use the Ram. Therefore, that's what I bought. My boat and trailer aren't nearly as heavy as your setup (4400# boat dry, trailer unknown, but probably 2000#) but the Ram handles it fine. My biggest problem towing is remembering that I have it back there so I can take corners wide.

Assuming Extreme set the trailer up for 10% tongue weight, the roughly 650# sets the rear of the truck down about an inch from unladen. Would your nearly twice the weight set it down more? I don't know. Can you borrow a truck for testing? Will the seller let you try it out?

The truck will be expensive, no matter how you look at it, so a little care now will pay over the years.

Yeah, by using a 5th wheel like they are, things change. I was merely trying to find out what I can tow legally with, without adding a weight distribution system.
I think I pretty much figured what will do it legally and will keep the old Suburban until I find a killer deal on a 2005 (or newer) F-350, 2WD, DRW, CC, SB, white with King Ranch or Lariat equipment. If I find a low milage 2001 or newer GMC 3500/ Dodge 3500 I might consider that as well and just add the WD and hope for the best.

[hkunz]

Yeah, by using a 5th wheel like they are, things change. I was merely trying to find out what I can tow legally with, without adding a weight distribution system.
I think I pretty much figured what will do it legally and will keep the old Suburban until I find a killer deal on a 2005 (or newer) F-350, 2WD, DRW, CC, SB, white with King Ranch or Lariat equipment. If I find a low milage 2001 or newer GMC 3500/ Dodge 3500 I might consider that as well and just add the WD and hope for the best.

They tow regular bumper-level stuff with these trucks. One guy's car trailer is an amazing chunk of iron. I think he used the "if a little is good, a lot is better" method of fabrication.:dunno:

I'm not sure I'd go with the 2 wheel drive version of anything. I've watched too many 2x4 trucks go backwards on the ramp pulling the boat out. Push a little harder on the loud pedal, and you actually head for the water faster.... it'd be funny if you weren't worried someone would get hurt.:eek3:

[kimswang]

They tow regular bumper-level stuff with these trucks. One guy's car trailer is an amazing chunk of iron. I think he used the "if a little is good, a lot is better" method of fabrication.:dunno:

I'm not sure I'd go with the 2 wheel drive version of anything. I've watched too many 2x4 trucks go backwards on the ramp pulling the boat out. Push a little harder on the loud pedal, and you actually head for the water faster.... it'd be funny if you weren't worried someone would get hurt.:eek3:

2WD is just fine. OX locker might be a good idea, but no 4x4 for me when I go dually. The problem with a 3500 is that it can tow a lot more than what it is certified for and most people leave it with that. Then if something should happen (god forbid it will) you could be in serious trouble and have no coverage.
Take a look at your hitch as well as your owners manual and you will see that without a WD you can't even tow your boat since it is more than 5K. Now for a GM, the limit is the rating of the trailer and not the actual weight. That means a 6K boat / trailer combo with a trailer rated to 10.5K must be towed with a WD and a minimum of a 2500. On top of that you need a "J" rating added to your driverslicense since the rating is more than 10K.
Yeah, it is not as easy as I thought it would be...