Requirements for safety equipment

[kimswang]

Since there is about as many opinions on some of the subjects with respect to requirered equipment as there is Rangers and boaters combined, I thought I ask the source. Here is what I asked:

Dear Sir / Madam,
>
> I'm just a bit confused with regards to your sound device laws. It states
> that a bell is required. My question is: What size, material, range, and
> mounting place is required? This question has been discussed on several
> online forums and everybody have different opinions about it. Please
> clearify, and I will post the result as all of us at LVHB.com is trying
> our best to obey by any laws out there.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Kim E. Swang

Here is the answer:

Unfortunately, I am unable to answer your question. You should contact
your nearest Nevada Department of Wildlife office and ask them.

--
webmaster@boat-ed.com
www.boat-ed.com

If these guys doesn't know, who would? The fee collectors at the local Department of wildlife sure don't know. What I am trying to establish is the law and NOT somebodys opinion. Anybody know where to get a copy?

[wicked_tahiti]

well, im not possitive on this.
ill ask my partner who has been an avid boater for the last 40 years.

here is a bit of info. dont know if you have this number to contact them, but here you go... let us know if it helps.
http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/course/boating/10_0.php?new_state=NV

[Rude]

what agency did you send the question to?

[kimswang]

http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/course/boating/10_0.php?new_state=NV

They contradict each other! It is kinda funny that the Rangers can issue us a ticket for a law that is nowhere to be found...

Rude, I sent it to NDW.

[wicked_tahiti]

Nevada law requires the following items on all bodies of water:
# A red or orange "skier down" flag when engaged in skiing operations.
# A "divers flag" or "alfa flag" for those engaged in diving operations.
# Every vessel which is 26 feet or more in length must carry a Coast Guard approved type IV throwable device such as a ring life buoy or buoyant cushion, with not less than 30 feet of throwing line attached.

The state of Nevada also recommends the following additional equipment:

* Compass and charts
* Marine VHF radio
* Anchoring equipment
* Bailing device
* Spare parts & tools
* Extra starting battery
* Oars or paddles
* Flashlight


So, these items are "optional" but recommended? or am i missing something?

[kimswang]

Sound device, fire extinguisher. The dilemma is the definition of sound device and wheter it is 39' or 26' that rules on our lakes. Like I said earlier, you will find both requirements, and some are contradictionary one another...

[LakeRacer]

sound devices can be a horn, whistle or other device capable of producing a sound that can be heard for a distance of one mile or more (I'll have to look that one up again.) For reasons going back to wooden sailing ship days, a bell is required for boats that are 26ft and longer (even if you have other sound producing devices) according to the Nevada boating safety website at http://www.boat-ed.com/nv/course/p4-10_distressdevices.htm

Scroll down to sound producing devices. Unfortunately it doesn't define the size and material of a bell. I would make a guess that at the very least it has to produce a sound capable of being heard for that one mile...and I reiterate that I'll have to check on the distance requirement.

You could also look up the Coast Guard regulations and see if they define what kind of bell is required.

The boating booklet that is on the website listed above should be carried in your boat for quick reference IMHO.

[kimswang]

sound devices can be a horn, whistle or other device capable of producing a sound that can be heard for a distance of one mile or more (I'll have to look that one up again.) You could also look up the Coast Guard regulations and see if they define what kind of bell is required.

The boating booklet that is on the website listed above should be carried in your boat for quick reference IMHO.

Look at my initial post. I wrote them and asked. They don't have the answer! One place is says 39.4' and longer, another place says 26' or longer. Neither says that you have to be able to hear it from a mile away, neither states material or size. With the coast guard rules, it is pretty clear, as for NDWL, total confusion!

The booklet they sent me with my registration was from 2004!!! And, said nothing about a bell!:dunno:

[LakeRacer]

it clearly states in the regulations that a bell is required. Straight from the Nevada Dept of Wildlife booklet that is posted on-line. And as I said, and I agree with you; it doesn't define what size and material. The web link that I arrived at came straight from the Nevada Dept of Wildlife as listed on their page.

Have you called the Nevada Dept of Wildlife or emailed them? They should to be the regulatory agency in charge of this. Email or call one of these guys and complain http://www.ndow.org/learn/com/pdf/commission_new_directory.pdf They are the board of commissioners. Maybe one could direct you to the proper authority on the regulations.

Here is another contact fmessman@ndow.org (Fred Messmann) who is on the policy committee of the National Assoc. of State Boating Law Administrators. He represents Nevada (the Boating Law Administrator) and works in the Wildlife division.

And two more contacts for Nevada boating:
Education
Edwin Lyngar
1100 Valley Rd
Reno, NV 89512-2817
Phone: 775-688-1548
Fax: 775-688-1551


Enforcement
Rob Buonamici
Chief Game Warden
1100 Valley Rd
Reno, NV 895122281
Phone: 775-688-1549
Fax: 775-688-1551

more
http://www.nasbla.org/stateInfo.php?stateAbbr=NV

Amazing what you can find on the internet! And look at your initial post. You wrote someone at boater-ed.com They only list the regulations for each state. You didn't write directly to the Nevada Dept of Wildlife.

[LakeRacer]

NRS 488.198 Whistles; bells.

1. Every motorboat of class 1, 2 or 3 must be equipped with an efficient whistle or other mechanical appliance that produces sound.

2. Every motorboat of class 2 or 3 must be equipped with an efficient bell.

3. The provisions of this section do not apply to motorboats while competing in any race conducted pursuant to NRS 488.305 or, if the boats are designed and intended solely for racing, while engaged in navigation incidental to the tuning up of the boats and engines for a race.

(Added to NRS by 1977, 137; A 1991, 855)

that means a sound producing device AND bell. You'll have to find out how efficient is defined.

UPDATE: from the Coast Guard

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/33cfr86.01.pdf

more from the Coast Guard
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/33cfr86.21.pdf

[kimswang]

NRS 488.198 Whistles; bells.

1. Every motorboat of class 1, 2 or 3 must be equipped with an efficient whistle or other mechanical appliance that produces sound.

2. Every motorboat of class 2 or 3 must be equipped with an efficient bell.

3. The provisions of this section do not apply to motorboats while competing in any race conducted pursuant to NRS 488.305 or, if the boats are designed and intended solely for racing, while engaged in navigation incidental to the tuning up of the boats and engines for a race.

(Added to NRS by 1977, 137; A 1991, 855)

that means a sound producing device AND bell. You'll have to find out how efficient is defined.

UPDATE: from the Coast Guard

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/33cfr86.01.pdf

more from the Coast Guard
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/12feb20041500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/pdf/33cfr86.21.pdf

So basically I just have to tell them I am tuning the boat for a race, hmmm, I'm gonna try that.:D. Good info there, thanks for digging into it for me. Guess I will go ahead and get a 2" plastic bell just to have one and not worry about it when being pulled over.... Until I can find the law that states I have to have a 6" or better made of a certain material AND that it applies to Nevada waters - NOT coast guard regulations. Kinda frustrating regulations, isn't it?

[LakeRacer]

if you want it to be. Why else would you want to install a plastic bell? I'm sure that won't produce an efficient sound no matter what the definition is. :rolleyes:

It's easy...call up or email the contacts that I looked up for you and ask them for written instructions/rules/regulations/statute on what is required. Either do that for the benefit of all on this board or quit complaining.

[kimswang]

I'm sorry if it is bothering you. But I am simply trying to find anywhere a written statement / Law, with regards to what kind of bell is required on a 26' boat. So far I have been unable, and yes, I have sent a few mails out. Here is out of USCG:

§ 86.23 Construction.
Bells and gongs shall be made of corrosion-
resistant material and designed
to give a clear tone. The diameter of
the mouth of the bell shall be not less
than 300 mm for vessels of more than 20
meters in length, and shall be not less
than 200 mm for vessels of 12 to 20 meters
in length. The mass of the striker
shall be not less than 3 percent of the
mass of the bell. The striker shall be
capable of manual operation. Note:
When practicable, a power-driven bell
striker is recommended to ensure constant
force.

As you can see - 12 meters! A heckofa lot more than 26 feet, and more like the 39.4' mentioned elsewhere. So, conclusion: I still don't know where to find what kind of construction of a bell, or size, is required for a 26' boat, and not one person has been able to tell me. Yet, one of our members got fined last year, and I am simply trying to get facts for all us to benefit, not to complain! If you have the data in question, post it, if not, don't bother!

Kim !

[LakeRacer]

but it sounded (to me) like you were complaining more than doing. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help too.

The following is what I sent to Fred Messmann via email:

Dear Sir:

As a boater and Phoenix, AZ, resident I plan on bringing my boat to Lake Mead in the near future and also to visit the Las Vegas area.

I have had a difficult time trying to find out the requirements for the bell (which is required by Nevada statute/regulations) that is to be mounted on my boat should I happen to launch it at Lake Mead. But nowhere can I find a definitive answer for the size, material and where it is to be mounted. I want to be sure that I am completely legal when I visit Lake Mead. However, I have heard horror stories of boaters who have been cited about the bell requirement. In your statutes the bell is suppose to be “efficient.” Please sir, define efficient for me or better yet, show me where it is written so that I may purchase the correct bell for mounting on my vessel.

Respectfully,

Art Witzell

[kimswang]

Cool, thanks for helping me out here. I have sent quite a few ones myself, but to no avail. Even PB, who normally has all the answers, have a problem with this one. Let me know what you find out, and I will post whatever I get my hands on. I have also asked every Ranger I have seen on the lake, none have a good answer. If it is not written, they just can't fine us! Keep up the good work and keep us posted.

Kim !

[sandman0_0]

I don't care what they say there is absolutly no way in HELL that I am mounting a F@*&^* bell in my boat. (:

[kimswang]

I don't care what they say there is absolutly no way in HELL that I am mounting a F@*&^* bell in my boat. (:

Come on now, it would look so sweet if we all had to mount it and they would chime like an orchestra around the lake...:D:D

[panic button]

The bell just has to be ON, it does not have to be mounted per the CG regulation. Mead falls under Federal law and Nevada law, Nevada can add to i.e length requirement being shorter, but not remove any of theFederal laws.

Corrosion resistant i.e. stainless or brass.

[ybull]

The bell just has to be ON, it does not have to be mounted per the CG regulation. Mead falls under Federal law and Nevada law, Nevada can add to i.e length requirement being shorter, but not remove any of theFederal laws.

Corrosion resistant i.e. stainless or brass.

Is that corrosion resistant to water or HCL?

[kimswang]

So, you are saying Nevada can make the requirement for a 26 footer instead of the federal 12meter? and in case they did, where can I find it in writing? How's Florida treating you? Got a chance to get some salt on the Cig yet? How's the family liking it? Hope you are well down there, and look forward to see you down there...

[panic button]

So, you are saying Nevada can make the requirement for a 26 footer instead of the federal 12meter? and in case they did, where can I find it in writing? How's Florida treating you? Got a chance to get some salt on the Cig yet? How's the family liking it? Hope you are well down there, and look forward to see you down there...

Yes, Nevada did change the length. I posted the exact location several months ago. I'm just too lazy to find it.

Florida is great! Only been out once, but will be out on the 4th watching the fireworks, too busy working on things in the house. Family loves it so far, but they have only been down here for 4 days total, then they were off to Vickie's family house in Alabama.

Come on down, there are a ton of center console boats here, and we've got plenty of room...

[LakeRacer]

So, you are saying Nevada can make the requirement for a 26 footer instead of the federal 12meter? and in case they did, where can I find it in writing?...

Please re-read my post #10. Class 2 and 3 boats are required to have the bell. I give up..... :headshake:

[STV_Keith]

I bought a bell for my Scarab. Was like 4.99 at WalMart and has a Las Vegas sign at the top. I'd say the bell is about 2" across at the bottom, and is gold colored metal. :D

Seems to satisfy the requirement.

[STV_Keith]

Here you go:

[kimswang]

I bought a bell for my Scarab. Was like 4.99 at WalMart and has a Las Vegas sign at the top. I'd say the bell is about 2" across at the bottom, and is gold colored metal. :D

Seems to satisfy the requirement.

Just what I had in mind, too funny...:rollinglaugh:

[kimswang]

Please re-read my post #10. Class 2 and 3 boats are required to have the bell. I give up..... :headshake:

No, I do not know what class 1, 2, or 3 means, so I must be an idiot! I asked a simple question, you don't have the answer! If you where mister know it all, you would have simply told me where I can find the info and not trying to put someone else down and think you know it all. Thanks but no thanks!

[LakeRacer]

No, I do not know what class 1, 2, or 3 means, so I must be an idiot! I asked a simple question, you don't have the answer! If you where mister know it all, you would have simply told me where I can find the info and not trying to put someone else down and think you know it all. Thanks but no thanks!

I'm not a know it all but holy crap! I did the research for you and posted all of the info with links to the information. It's right under your nose in plain writing. Soooooo I did give you the answer (if you had read the links more thoroughly!) But just in case you think I'm an a s s read the following:

From the Handbook of Nevada Boating Laws
If on State Waters

Less than 26 feet long (includes PWCs)
Whistle, horn, or other mechanical sound device required

26 feet long or longer
Whistle or other mechanical sound device and a bell required

If on Waters Under U.S. Coast Guard Jurisdiction

Less than 65.6 feet long (includes PWCs)
Whistle or horn audible for at least one-half mile required

65.6 feet long or longer
Whistle or horn and a bell audible for at least one mile required

and also

Vessel Length Classes
A vessel's length class dictates the equipment necessary to comply with federal and state laws.
Vessels are divided into length classes:
Less than 16 feet (Class A)
16 feet to less than 26 feet (Class 1)
26 feet to less than 40 feet (Class 2)
40 feet to less than 65 feet (Class 3)
Length is measured from the tip of the bow in a straight line to the stern. This does not include outboard motors, brackets, rudders, bow attachments, or swim platforms and ladders that are not a molded part of the hull.

And from the Nevada Revised Statutes
NRS 488.198 Whistles; bells.

1. Every motorboat of class 1, 2 or 3 must be equipped with an efficient whistle or other mechanical appliance that produces sound.

2. Every motorboat of class 2 or 3 must be equipped with an efficient bell.

3. The provisions of this section do not apply to motorboats while competing in any race conducted pursuant to NRS 488.305 or, if the boats are designed and intended solely for racing, while engaged in navigation incidental to the tuning up of the boats and engines for a race.

(Added to NRS by 1977, 137; A 1991, 855)

This will be my last post on the subject unless of course Mr. Messmann responds to my email.

[kimswang]

Art,
Thanks for all the info, I have read the posts and I still have the question as to what kind of bell (size, range, etc...). If Nevada have modified them, and then "forgot" to state what kind is required, well?? I will do what STVKeith did and hope for the best. Hope to see you out on the lake, we just have to finish this over a cold one...:D:drinkers:

[STV_Keith]

Kim, I think you have the question because NV doesn't state what kind of bell you have to have. Therefore, it's up to you - you saw my interpretation.

[kimswang]

Kim, I think you have the question because NV doesn't state what kind of bell you have to have. Therefore, it's up to you - you saw my interpretation.

Exactly - and I like the way you dealt with it, I will go the same route:thumb:
Got parts yet? My powerpack is supposed to be here today and off to the lake we go!

[LakeRacer]

This is the response I got from Fred Messmann:

Mr. Witzell

NRS 488.198 requires every motorboat 26 feet and longer to be equipped with an efficient bell. The U.S. Inland Navigation Rules require a bell on vessels longer than 12 meters (39.4 feet, as well as a copy of the navigation rules book on board). There are specific specifications required that are found in annex III, subpart B section 86.21, and 86.23 of the USCG Navigation Rules. The state would use the same specifications which are:

“producing a sound level of not less than 110 dB at a distance of 1 meter.”

We very much appreciate your interest in complying with the boating laws of the State as well as other laws and regulations within the Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Our goal is safe and enjoyable boating. I am not sure why you have heard horror stories related to bell citations. I am not sure NDOW has ever issued such a citation although we could ask during a safety check. Nevada will probably ask the 2009 legislature to amend our law to be in sync with the federal laws (>12meters).


Fred Messmann
Boating Law Administrator

Something tells me that the little bell you guys are using won't cut it (depending on the LEO.) But the future is looking better....it seems they are trying to be a little more realistic on the requirements for 2009.

[kimswang]

Awesome job Art, just what I was looking for. I loved the fact that he realize it is from the fullrigger era and don't really enhance safety on our lakes. Thanks for posting it!

[LakeRacer]

Awesome job Art, just what I was looking for. I loved the fact that he realize it is from the fullrigger era and don't really enhance safety on our lakes. Thanks for posting it!

My pleasure :beerchug:

[DCfive]

Here you go:


Somehow, I think if you showed that to a LEO, you might get a "smart-ass" ticket.:rollinglaugh:
Nice bell though.

[DCfive]

I seem to recall from early ocean training as a kid, a bell was to be used in case of low visibility, ie. fog. When's the last time it was foggy on Lake Mead?:dunno:

[STV_Keith]

Well, I'll tell him to show me where it gives a spec for the bell. If they want to ticket me, then I WILL go to court to fight it. That's a BS requirement, especially when I already carry flares, an air horn and a whistle. If all that can't get the cavalry, the bell isn't going to do squat!

[LakeRacer]

Awesome job Art, just what I was looking for. I loved the fact that he realize it is from the fullrigger era and don't really enhance safety on our lakes. Thanks for posting it!


Any word or responses to your emails that you sent out? I'm just wondering if there is any consistency in their "answers" to our questions about bell requirements.

[kimswang]

Nope, the only answer I have gotten is the one I posted.