Need advice - stereo

[kc0000]

my eliminator is about to get an attitude adjustment, taking it from a slow moving jukebox to a fire breathing sound stage!

One of the amps in the stereo tried to escape, so I'm rigging super duty mounting brackets to take wake jumping impact, as well as replacing the amps with 12 channels / 1500watts.

How can I shock mount the head unit to keep from destroying the cd player mechanism every three weekends?

KC

[Essex502]

Out of curiosity, are you using a "marine" grade head unit?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Sep. 10 2002, 07:21 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Out of curiosity, are you using a "marine" grade head unit?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Now why would you use one of those? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Beach Bum]

In my humble opinion, the best way to go is with a multi-disc changer, mounted toward the rear of the boat, preferrably in the engine compartment. (it's the smoothest ride in the boat) and then only use the single CD player portion in the head unit when necessary. Some changers are capable of some serious buffering allowing for skip free enjoyment of your favorite Lawrence Welk tunes. I would also recommend running the amplifiers toward the rear of the boat for the same reasons. By the way, the more stereo you put in the front of the boat, the more dramatic the difference in speed. I have a friend who lost 10mph! after his installation, although it is on the extreme side!( something like 22 speakers, 4 batteries and a truckload of power)
Also remember that bass is non-directional(unlike mids and tweets) so you can put it pretty much anywhere and have good sound as long as the enclosure is fabricated properly. Â* Â*(the most weight of the entire system)

[BADFISH II]

damn BBum, you should open a stereo install shop, maybe do some lifts and customization of vehicles, hmmmmmm http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Beach Bum]

Ya think? I was thinkin about a brothel, but I guess I could turn my talents elsewhere!

[kc0000]

I'm using a very nice Alpine unit, non-marine. IMHO, no need for marine grade elctronics unless your boat lives in the salt air.

My goal is good sound, not the thump, thump, thump...

My sound system was installed by the previous owner, he dumped something to the tune of $6000 into the system. When I got the boat, it had a cheesy Sony head unit and a cheesier Sony electronic cross over. The install gets an A+ for speaker installation, a C- for wiring, a C- for components, a C- for overall design. Not all of the speakers were hooked up - they were trying to drive 12 speakers with 10 channels.

On the good side, each of the 12 speakers has its own built in compartment, Infinity Reference Series, A+.

When I bought the boat I tossed the Sony components and added an XM ready Alpine. After this coming weekend, the system will have three new amps with a total of 12 channels that are fully adjustable, new wiring and fuses for the amps to include new cables from the battery. The battery is a 4D sealed cell AGM, very sweet, pushed by a TrueCharge 20amp tender that brings the battery up to 98% in about four to six hours.

For a few minutes this past weekend I had everything hooked up and running - awesome sound - then the broken amp gave way. I attempted to take the amp apart to fix it, but the soldering did not work and would have failed in the future.

I really like the XM, at $10 a month I am saving money because I no longer buy CDs, nor do I need to take the time to burn mix CDs. With around 100 channels of almost commercial free tunes, you can always find something that rocks. The only issue is that the number of channels is overwhelming, but eventually you learn the ranges. There is an XM transmitter in Havasu and I get reception in EVERY cove.

I'll post some pictures of the amp mounting brackets after this weekend.
KC

[Beach Bum]

Sounds cool! I am anxious to see and hear it KC!

[duckbutter]

what kind of amps do you run.. I am or used to be a Fosgate fanatic. my problem is the new series of amps shut down. I had a 150.2 running 2 12's it would shut down constantly. It was a small amp for the speakers but sounded great when it worked I just figured it was too small for the speakers, but then I bought a 800.4 all I had runnin off it was some 5.5 components and 2 8's and it would shut off also. From what I have heard this is a common problem with Newer fosgate. I had two older amps (150Hd & punch 40) for how small they were they were amazing never shut off and amazing power for the size. Never had a problem with their subs or mid range. Just amps does any one own 2002-2003 model fosgate amps any improvements

[Beach Bum]

I don't own any Fosgate products, but it sounds as if you have either a thermal overload condition(they're too hot) or a current shut down problem ( too low of a load.) Are you running everything in parallel, if so, that could be one place to look.
Do you have an adequate ground?
I have seen many cases where the installer used 0 guage supply, and only an 8 guage ground, which will certainly cause a problem. Also be sure the ground point is clean and tight, and all connections are ample for the power you are running.
Do the power/ground wires get unusually hot when things start to shut down?
Do you know what voltage is actually getting to the amp?
Sometimes a regulated power supply wwill have minimum voltage requirements, and maybe you are too close to the threshold?

[kc0000]

The two amps I am pulling are Rockford Fosgate Punch 270.4, I think, they are something 2xx.4. Probably 1998 models. These amps did shut down on me a few times, basically caused by the battery being so low that the amps could not maintain consistant sound quality. So I replaced my battery and never had an issue after that. The amp that is dead, the reason it is dead is that the terminal for the "remote power" connector became lose from abusive wave pounding.... and finally failed. This time around, the wires will be mounted so that they can not flop around placing unwanted stress onto the terminals connected to the curcuit board.

I'm replacing with the Rockford Fosgate Power 550x, 3x. I want the varriable cross overs since every pair of speakers on the boat is differenet size and rating. Previously there was only 26watts pushing my subs, this time around they will have 65watts - still very low for subs but the sound was great at 26watts per channel, though no significant thump, thump, thump...

KC

[duckbutter]

BB when I checked everything last year it was all ok, as in volts to the amp the only thing I didn't check is the ground Gauge it's 4 gauge power supply I will check the ground.

Kc mine would shut off even when vehicle was running I have a brand new Optima Gelcell. that should be the problem for me. Let me know how the new RF amps work. Like I say I am a fosgate fan, I would like to stay with them if they keep up their quality

[kc0000]

db....
check that ground... vehicle running should supply enough current unless seriously cranked up. Full report and pictures on Monday.

KC

[RiverLife]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Beach Bum @ Sep. 10 2002, 09:34 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ya think? I was thinkin about a brothel, but I guess I could turn my talents elsewhere![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why not a combination of the two.............. give guys something to do while they wait for there ride to be done!
Yep, great minds are always thinking http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Beach Bum]

That's agreat idea! Greg could run it by hand while I do the stereo shop thing! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[BADFISH II]

OUCH BBUM!

Your's is coming bud, I'm just waiting for my opportunity, game on! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rude]

hey BBum, what's your labor rate? you sound like you know what the he!! you're talkin' bout! unlike myself who would have a hard time drawing a straight line with ruler http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0000]

The amps arrived on Thursday afternoon, sweet. fully adjustable gain and cross-overs will allow me to tune the twelve channels to match the speakers - wiring everything together tonight so that we can tune while on the lake on Saturday. RF 550x.

Photos and furhter reports on Monday. KC

[OutCole'd]

Is there a site that has some kind of wiring diagrams for a stereo instillation? I have a sony head unit & no amps, four speakers and a it is all just a basic system. I am not looking for anything radical, because I do not see owning this boat for another 3 years, but I would like to add some bass boxes & an amp to run these. Is there a web site that anyone knows about that has any wiring info on them? Do I need crossovers? I can do the installation & the wiring if I have some kind of direction. I would appreciate any info.

Thanks,
Bill

[LV-Advantage]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OutCole'd @ Sep. 14 2002, 5:13 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Is there a site that has some kind of wiring diagrams for a stereo instillation? I have a sony head unit & no amps, four speakers and a it is all just a basic system. I am not looking for anything radical, because I do not see owning this boat for another 3 years, but I would like to add some bass boxes & an amp to run these. Is there a web site that anyone knows about that has any wiring info on them? Â*Do I need crossovers? I can do the installation & the wiring if I have some kind of direction. I would appreciate any info.

Thanks,
Bill[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Try this site car audio (http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm) it has alot of info on it. Â*Let us know how it turns out if you give it a shot.

[OutCole'd]

LV Advantage, Thanks for the link. That site could answer any question I could possibly come up with.

I will let you know how it turns out.

Thanks Again,
Bill

[Beach Bum]

Out cole'd I can help you with your issues, just give me a call,and I'll go over it with you. You'll be surprised how easy it is! I'll pm you my number.
Travis

[kc0000]

dropped in the three 550x amps, they work great. Need to tune the system next weekend - it now goes thump, thump, thump.... KC

[OutCole'd]

Thanks, Travis. I looked at the link LV Adv sent and the wiring looks pretty simple. I just need to figure what I want to do, and how much I am willing to spend. I went to a stereo shop this weekend, and the amp & things I need are not cheap. I plan on working on it in the off season, so next year, I can bother anyone within 1 mile playng some of Pat Boone's greatest hits.

[LV-Advantage]

Iv'e been thinking of doing my own install also, one thing has me stumped though what do you ground the amps to? I was thinking the motor isn't a good place.

[OutCole'd]

I am no stereo pro, but why wouldn't the engine be a good ground? On a boat, I think every ground has to end at the same place, The engine block. Come on Stereo people, am I wrong?

[duckbutter]

Any large chunk of metal should be a good ground, very easy to find in a car/truck I don't know about a boat. sorry

[Beach Bum]

Actually, THE best place is the battery. It is best that all of your connections for power start and end at the battery. It is the base of all things electrical in your boat. Using the engine as ground is acceptable, however remember that the ground from the engine to the battery must be kept in optimum condition for proper operation of your system. Most marine batteries have multiple posts, so utilize one set for the pos/neg cables of the boat systems, and the other for your stereo.

[duckbutter]

KC any pics of the new system or naked girls laying on the system http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kc0000]

I forgot to collect the pictures.... of the system that is, the other pictures are..... well, just good!

maybe next weekend! KC

[kc0000]

IMHO.....

Depending upon the age of your battery, the type of battery, the battery box, and how you charge it.... the gasses from the charging can reak havick with connections.... it has been my experiance that a SINGLE connection on the battery post of a battery that is inside of an enclosure - is the best connection between the battery and some type of distribution block, such as the motor or a switch block. It seems that multiple connections on a post of a battery kept inside of a battery box, will significantly corrode quickly, to the point where you are cleaning the connections every weekend.

Simple... if battery is enclosed then one massive brass/gold plated connection.

I now have an AGM batteries, sealed, no gasses and no corrosion! KC

[BADFISH II]

uhhh, can someone tell me what I should put in my ride if I keep it http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/huh.gif

KC and Bbum, I could see some serious stereo intellect forming. Maybe we should form an LVHB stereo shop or something http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif People would come from all over the southwest to have you guys work out the system config's etc. and the install http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Hmmm, I see it now, LVHBstereos.com http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[OutCole'd]

This may be good for the guy's upgrading their systems to get rid of their obsolete equipment to us poor loser's that are just looking to improve our old systems without the bleeding eardrum thing.

[BADFISH II]

Heck Bill, I don't even got enough to get anywhere close to a bleeding eardrum http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kc0000]

Trickle Down Theory.....

Sell your componets to a good soul:
a - while they still have good market value
b - as soon as the new stuff is available
c - serves my need to have the best and your need to get something at a good price

Everything that I use ends up at my sisters house, she loves the trickle down theory.....
KC

[kc0000]

lm1...

1) budget
2) willingness to drill large holes in boat
3) keep in mind that it is your personal taste driving the project, and that might not be of value to another individual
4) find what works for you.....

if you want good sound while you are sitting in the boat then probably < 1000watts, spend the money on the speakers and four channel amps, one sub woofer goes a long way in a car but two are probably needed in a boat.

if you want to entertain everyone at the sand bar then buy disco speaker boxes and a honda generator...

dual and isolated batteries are mandatory IMHO... one to start the boat and one to bleed dry while listening to jams, expect to pay at least $350 for a TrueCharge tender... there is nothing better, especially since it is temp sensetive and that i smore important in NV and AZ.

To me, if I need a tool that I am going to use once then I rent it or buy something that is inexpensive - but if I am going to use it more than once then I look for the best convieniance, which many times equates to the higher end and higher cost.

No Sony AMPS, they look cool but are not efficient.
Rockford Fosgate works well, great sound, efficient, not too hard on the battery.

Head units are important, but if you are wave jumping then expect to thrash one each season. The crossovers in my alpine are worth every penny that I paid for the head unit.

XM Sat is the only way to go, cost $10 per month but you will save that in time and money by not buying and burning CDs.

listen to other boats... my speakers are up, near the top of the boat, great highs and the subs in the sides take car of the lows.... great fullness due to power, excellent imaging due to placement and enclosuers

Another boat, has 6x9s located low near the floor, sound travels across the floor and then up and out of the boat, enclosures not necessary with 6x9s, great fullness with little imaging from cheap speakers.

Summary:
- Additional battery
- significant battery tender
- major battery switches
- ALPINE XM ready head unit
- choose your style of sound ( with or without imaging, think surround sound as imaging )

Yes, Ive had at leas tone margarrita tonight! KC

[duckbutter]

Just one, I had 4 mind erasers last night and let me tell you work is hell this morning http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif

[THOR]

I have one Kenwood and one Fosgate amp. They work great. But, you will always want more.

[kc0000]

This shows how I mounted the amps so they do not rip out wil jumping waves, tested this weekend with no issues! The system now has 3x Fosgate Power 550x four channel amps, two amps pushing eight speakers and one amp pushing two subs. Finished tuning the crossovers this weekend. I lit up South Haystack Cove in Mohave with Beethovans 9th Ode to Joy, the cellos make the boat shutter - everything else sounds pretty good also. KC

[Essex502]

Man you gotta shrink those down! The pics I mean. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Looks sweet!

[kc0000]

I know.... ..... I have two 21 inch LCDs at home, can you say pixels! The sound is now way cleaner than the RRX party. KC

[Essex502]

I'm spoiled too...use a 21" Mitsubishi monitor at home but am limited to 17" PC emulator on this Sun workstation. The Sun monitor is 21" but the PC emulation is effectively 17".