Cutting holes in the boat....

[KC_Nelson]

for these!

[KC_Nelson]

took me almost four days to find the courage

[kevnmcd]

So how does it sound? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Did you add any subs? Give us the 411 of what you are doing. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[KC_Nelson]

Sound is a matter of taste. System design can compliment your taste or not. My objective is good quality sound that I can hear while driving the boat. My hypothesis is that - in a boat, good full sound comes from more speakers not more watts.

To the design…..
The head unit has been replaced with the same Alpine unit as my truck, backed up be a High Current Audiobahn amp. Usually an amp is rated for power by channel, such as 4x125w at 4ohms - that equates to being able to push four normal speakers at 125w each, each speaker is 4ohms. As you add more speakers the ohms drop and so does the power output of the speaker. A high current amp provides more power at lower ohms, so this amp will push eight normal speakers at 125w across four channels, additional transistors are turned on as the ohms drop. This provides more flexibility in that if I wanted subs I could drive four speakers on two channels and drive one or two subs on the other two channels. For now the amp will be configured for two channels to run the rear speakers, each channel supporting two speakers wired in parallel equating to 2ohms, 125w per speaker. The other two channels will run the front speakers, each channel supporting one speaker at 4ohms, 125w per speaker.

Nordic did an excellent job of providing a soundboard by building the bench seat, a hard wood enclosure for the speakers to resonate off of and do their job. The rears provide good bass, not type Rap bass – again sound is a matter of taste.

Two weeks ago I installed the head unit, amp and rewired most of the electrical on the boat. The boat now has high amperage circuit breakers on everything except the starter – inspired by a burned out hull at Nordic that was clearly the result of an electrical fire.

Last weekend was the cutting and installation of the rears, I hand held the wires to one side for a few minutes and the sound is awesome.

This weekend the crossovers will be wired permanently, the amp will be mounted and wired permanently. As most of you know I have one battery on the boat, a 4D AGM, if I have time then I will add an Optima Blue Top as my cranking battery so that the 4D is dedicated to the stereo. The power to the stereo will be activated by solenoid not the Perko, Mr. Gadget found some nice continuous duty marine solenoids that will be activated by the switch on the dash.

Kurt and Mark are going to cry when see the engine bay and hear the system.

More pics on Monday.

Version 2 of the water injection for the motor is now fully operational, patiently awaiting the heat of Havasu. It kicks on at 2500rpm and drops the operating temps of the motor, the intake manifold becomes cold to the touch, should be cool!!

[kevnmcd]

Sounds like you know what you are doing? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Can't wait to see it. Show us more pics when you have them.

[Essex502]

Man - that takes balls to cut into your new boat!

[Rivercrazy]

Are you wiring 8 speakers to that 4 channel amp via Parallel wiring? Â*Is that amp 1 ohm stable? Â*If not, if might run very hot and potentially go into shut off mode.

Looks like you got some very nice quality speakers. What are they?

[KC_Nelson]

I hope it all works when fully wired......

The rear speakers are MB Quart QM218.61, 6.5 with 1 inch tweeters. Unless I'm wrong - wired in parallel the two 6.5, two tweeters, and two crossovers attached to one channel drops me to 2ohms. Two channels, each driving two sets of components in the rear of the boat giving 2 x 250w @ 2ohm - up front I have two channels each driving a single Clarion speaker giving 2 x 125w @ 4ohm.

If your not in a hurry then eBay is a great place to shop, it took me five months to collect my components at the prices I wanted.

More pics on Monday after I get back from Havasu.

A4125HCT AUDIOBAHN HIGH CURRENT 2000W 4 CH AMP,125W 4 @ 4ohm, 250W X 4 @ 2ohm, 375W X 4 @ 1ohm, 1000W X 2 @ 1ohm , BLUE ILLUMINATION, DUAL COOLING FAN, VU METERS http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif

[Rivercrazy]

Those are great speakers. Your gonna love them if you haven't heard them before.

Most 4 channel amps have one power supply. Some higher end amps have dual power supplies. What I've always been told regarding 4 channel amps is running more than 4 speakers (one to each channel) presents a ohm load that a 4 channel amp cannot handle. Effectively 8 speakers wired in parallel to a 4 channels presents the amplifer with a 1 ohm load (on a single power supply). I could be wrong here though....

[KC_Nelson]

That is were the High Current amp is different, in design and cost.

[titties and beer]

YEP, YOU SUCK http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif come on summer http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[duckbutter]

There are a few amps out there that are stable of a 1ohm load
I have even heard of an amp capable of a .5 ohm load
I can't remember the name of the amp
I know that Xtant amps can hold 1ohm they were popular when they first came out but I don't hear about them anymore

[duckbutter]

Kicker has packed the SX1250.1 mono subwoofer amp with unparalleled digital signal processing and tons of power. Designed to operate at lower impedances, this bass machine incorporates MOSFET power supplies, precision construction, and built-in cooling fans to pound out 625 watts at 2 ohms, and a staggering 1,250 watts at 1 ohm! Strap two SX1250.1 amps together for insane power levels — the Blast Port allows you to control both amps with one wired remote.

312 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms (Kicker recommends a 2- or 1-ohm load for maximum performance)
625 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms
1250 watts RMS x 1 at 1 ohm (1-ohm stable)


Not sure if this is what rivercrazywas talking about
but they do make 1ohm amps

This is in no way intended to start sh!t
just trying to be helpful Â*
so f**k off Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[duckbutter]

I can't shut up about this


Visonik Amplifiers




High Current Amps

1/2 Ohm Stereo-1 ohm Mono Stable

Item Number Channels Ohms Stable Watts Price
V400HC 2/1 1/2 Ohm Stable 500 RMS MAX $249.99
V600HC 2/1 1/2 Ohm Stable 1000 RMS $379.99
V800HC 2/1 1/2 Ohm Stable 2800 RMS $469.99
V900HC 2/1 1/2 Ohm Stable 3200 MAX $619.99
V500HC 4 1/2 Ohm Stable 1000 RMS $379.99
V700HC Mono 1/2 Ohm Stable 1400 RMS $445.99

[Rivercrazy]

Its not uncommon for class D subwoofer amps to be 1 ohm stable. But it is very uncommon for class A/B amplifers to be anything less than 2 ohm stable. Class A/B are full range amplifers capable of driving either component speakers or subwoofers. The major difference is efficiency. Class D are designed to only amplify lower frequencies for subs and are about 65-75% efficient. Class A/B are full range but only 50-60% efficient. That is the main driver contributing to heat generated in A/B amps versus D.

[KC_Nelson]

You guys are knowing your stuff pretty well!! We need to start a Custom Stereo business for these custom boats!!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:26 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys are knowing your stuff pretty well!! Â* We need to start a Custom Stereo business for these custom boats!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah...then you can look at my system and tell me how I can get more sound out of it! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Rivercrazy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:31 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:26 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys are knowing your stuff pretty well!! Â* We need to start a Custom Stereo business for these custom boats!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah...then you can look at my system and tell me how I can get more sound out of it! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oh that is easy! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rivercrazy @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:32 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:31 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys are knowing your stuff pretty well!! Â* We need to start a Custom Stereo business for these custom boats!!<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah...then you can look at my system and tell me how I can get more sound out of it! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif[/quote]
Oh that is easy! Â*$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was afraid that was going to be the answer. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif

[Essex502]

Change to a Nordick and you'd get all the sound you wanted! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:31 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:26 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys are knowing your stuff pretty well!! Â* We need to start a Custom Stereo business for these custom boats!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah...then you can look at my system and tell me how I can get more sound out of it! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I agree $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[duckbutter]

Stupid expensive electronics http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Feb. 19 2004, 10:46 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Change to a Nordick and you'd get all the sound you wanted! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I get plenty of sound.....just want some more. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Don't know if I have the room though...currently have:

2 - 12" subs
2 - 6x9's
6 - mids
6 - tweets
3 - amps
12 disc changer/EQ/head unit

Sounds good as it stands. I just think I need to upgrade the speakers at some point. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Essex502]

And how many batteries powering all of that stuff?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Feb. 20 2004, 08:15 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And how many batteries powering all of that stuff?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Two deep cycles.

[Rivercrazy]

Sounds like you have one really nice system Kevin! A good rule of thumb to keep in mind regarding how loud your system is this:

You have to double amplifer power to bet a 3 db increase. Or you can double speaker cone surface area to get a 3 db increase. Or do both and get almost a 6 db increase. So if you really want it louder break out the wallet!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rivercrazy @ Feb. 20 2004, 09:53 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So if you really want it louder break out the wallet![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Actually, it is plenty for me right now. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Essex502]

Actually...my little Kenwood with 4 6x9's and no amp is plenty for me right now too...I just pull up next to someone else with one of those high dollar stereos and listen to their battery running low! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 20 2004, 08:19 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Feb. 20 2004, 08:15 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And how many batteries powering all of that stuff?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Two deep cycles.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I think the technical term is "premature e......"

Sorry Kevin, but at Powell your system lasted thirty minutes before we had to push you boat into the back parking lot and bring forward a more lively system..... oooohhh...

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rivercrazy @ Feb. 20 2004, 09:53 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like you have one really nice system Kevin! Â*A good rule of thumb to keep in mind regarding how loud your system is this:

You have to double amplifer power to bet a 3 db increase. Â*Or you can double speaker cone surface area to get a 3 db increase. Â*Or do both and get almost a 6 db increase. Â*So if you really want it louder break out the wallet![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I like that thought, double the speaker surface! Kind of fits what I did in the Nordic.

[KC_Nelson]

Sorry, I left the camera at home.

This weekend I wired in the cross overs, moved the amp and did some testing on the battery, or batteries now. My 4D AGM is dead, it lasted only two tracks of the Eminem 8 Mile CD before the amp shut down. Rumor has it that the Havasu Heat is really hard on the GEL type batteries. So, after installing three blue tops and re-wiring the electrical.... I have Carnegie Hall type of clarity.

I thought that the Q Series speakers sounded good in my truck until the boat came to life - wow.... The coolest thing is that it does not have to be loud to hear the clarity, and no subs. I can not wait to get Kurts opinion of the sound.

Now I have to rethink my truck, it might be time to build a sound board for the back of the cab, or boards for the doors.


Sound systems are a matter of taste - very pleased with mine!!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 22 2004, 7:33 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Feb. 20 2004, 08:19 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And how many batteries powering all of that stuff?<span id='postcolor'>
Two deep cycles.[/quote]
I think the technical term is "premature e......"

Sorry Kevin, but at Powell your system lasted thirty minutes before we had to push you boat into the back parking lot and bring forward a more lively system..... Â*oooohhh...

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"

I think the technical term is "premature e......"[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know....but I did find out that my alternater was bad. I know have full recharge capabilities as well as new batteries. I am hoping that this will make a difference. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[titties and beer]

IF IT EVER STOPS RAINING I CAN DO MORE TO MINE http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[KC_Nelson]

Finally

[KC_Nelson]

Finished

[kevnmcd]

Looks nice.....how is the sound?

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 22 2004, 7:33 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry Kevin, but at Powell your system lasted thirty minutes before we had to push you boat into the back parking lot and bring forward a more lively system..... Â*oooohhh...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks for the compliment on the tunes KC! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ Mar. 08 2004, 08:43 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Feb. 22 2004, 7:33 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sorry Kevin, but at Powell your system lasted thirty minutes before we had to push you boat into the back parking lot and bring forward a more lively system..... Â*oooohhh...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Thanks for the compliment on the tunes KC! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
the facts speak for themselves !!!

[beer hunter]

I can't wait to hear your new system, looks like you've done a clean/great job! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 08 2004, 07:51 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Looks nice.....how is the sound?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Sitting on the bench the sound is very clear and can get very loud, good bass. Â*Standing behind the wheel is the same thing. Â*Inside the mid-cabin the sound is like sitting on the floor of carnegie hall, Kurt will really like it. Â*The boat makes my truck sound like a single transistor radio from the 70s.

Now battery longevity.....

Found an interesting item at West Marine, combines the battery banks together whenever there is a charging source - so you don't have to remember to switch the battery switch during the day in order to re-charge the stereo bank. Â*Kevin you might consider this for your boat.....

[KC_Nelson]

some details

http://www.yandina.com/acrobats/C50Data.pdf

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 08 2004, 09:08 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Found an interesting item at West Marine, combines the battery banks together whenever there is a charging source - so you don't have to remember to switch the battery switch during the day in order to re-charge the stereo bank. Â*Kevin you might consider this for your boat.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you talking about an "isolator"?

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 08 2004, 09:25 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC_Nelson @ Mar. 08 2004, 09:08 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Found an interesting item at West Marine, combines the battery banks together whenever there is a charging source - so you don't have to remember to switch the battery switch during the day in order to re-charge the stereo bank. Â*Kevin you might consider this for your boat.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Are you talking about an "isolator"?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Functionally the same, but far less expensive and way smaller. It works great, I tested with my handy volt meter and it makes the connection about thirty seconds after a charge is connected. Now I can leave the battery switch in position ONE, both banks will charge as soon as I start the motor or connect the charger, as soon as the charge is disconnected it returns both banks to being isolated. No worries about dragging down my cranking battery and I don't have to remember to flip the switch when moving from cove to cove.

A straight forward good idea.

[kevnmcd]

What is the price of it?

[kevnmcd]

Just checked it out....$79.99

[KC_Nelson]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Mar. 08 2004, 09:45 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just checked it out....$79.99[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Most diode based isolators are over $100, require a large cooling heatsink - so they are the size of your kids lunch box....

The connector is the size of two 9volt transistor batteries placed end to end.

[kevnmcd]

Thanks for the info, KC. I will have to look into it. I may have to do a little re-wiring of my stereo for this to work. I currently have all my power for the stereo coming off of the output side of my battery switch. That means in order for this to work I would have to hard wire my stereo up to battery #2 and leave the switch on battery #1. But then there is no way to turn off the power to the stereo when it is being stored, unless I am missing something here.