Gas Treatment

[TooMuchFun]

Anybody out there used Stabil as a gas treatment to keep all from separating and the lighter compounds evaporating off over the winter?

I may not get to use the boat for the next few weeks due to work and have about 90 gallons sitting in the tanks ... am thinking of winterizing, but am afraid of gunking up the system with bad gas next spring. The other alternative is to siphon all off into one of my trucks periodically.

TooMuchFun

[kevnmcd]

I never treat it. Â*I always try and leave the tank low when I know I am done for awhile and then fill up with new when I go out. Â*They say that you should store it full so that condensation doesn't get in there, but I have never had any problems. Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif Of course, this is only my .02 worth....I am sure E502 and KC will have many reasons why my way sucks! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Essex502]

Not that your way SUCKS kevin...I was told to add Stabil and FILL the tanks...the theory being with less air volume there would be less condensation. Anyway... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[TooMuchFun]

kevnmcd and E502 -- that's the conundrum, add Stabil and fill the tanks (that is what I have currently done) and potentially risk gum deposit formations (one of the worst things that can get in an engine) due to slow evaporation of the lighter Octane-based part of the fuel; or run the tanks to almost empty and risk condensation???

I've heard both ways recommended and cannot decide http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Also, and another obsessive question, if I simply pour the requisite Stabil amount in on top of the existing fuel and jar it around on the hwy when taking to storage is this enough of a mix?

TooMuchFun

[kevnmcd]

TMF - To do it correctly.....you should put Stabil in the tanks, allow it to mix, and then run it through the motor and fuel system to protect the entire system and not just the tanks.

[Essex502]

I've stored the boat as long as 6 months with Stabil and full tanks with no ill effects. That is in SoCal where the temperation can get down to 40-45° (or less) at night and up to 65° or so during the day during the winter months.

[kevnmcd]

temperation? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif

[Essex502]

Temperation - the act of lowering the temperation in gradual increments until the desired result is achieved!

[Essex502]

See this! (http://www.goldeagle.com/sta-bil/faqs.htm)

[digginfordollars]

I like to leave them low and add fresh fuel in the spring. With the dry air in Vegas I don't think condensation is a problem here. You should also have a water separating filter that should take care of what little does get in there, just don't forget to change it every year.I added Stabil one time and didn't notice any difference from the times that I didn't add it. Although I only run midgrade fuel, I'm sure you are running 92 or better. The higher octane fuels degrade faster and your high hp engine is less tolerant to bad fuel than my stock 310 hp. In your case I would add the recommended Stabil, slosh it around and run the engine to get it in the system. If it is only going to be a few weeks before you use it again, I don't know if I would even do that.

[Ultranaught]

I have used Stabil on my boat(s) for years. In Vegas you don't have to worry so much about condensation in the tanks but up here you do. I put in the correct dose of Stabil, fill the tanks and then run the engine to pull the fuel into the carb or injectors to make sure that the fuel is stabilized all the way through the system. Keeping the tanks full keeps the condensation out.
In 16 years owning stern drives, I have never had an issue with bad gas or gook in the system in spring, or water in the tanks, so it works for me...

[TooMuchFun]

Way cool on all the good advice ... many thanks.

Also spoke with Shane at Offshore and he concurs with the fill the tanks and add the correct amount of Stabil, run the engine to ensure adequate Stabil coating throughout the intakes, and then fog the plugs and piston chambers and etc. for winterization. Will be doing such later this week, as well as changing out the fuel filter and water separator and dropping the drive oil and cleaning the Flame Arrestor and etc. and etc. ... sure beats my foggy hallucination of draining the gas into one of my trucks or running up and down Mead in the cold to burn up the gas ...

For those of you giving me oil advice, I'm going to switch to synthetic 15W50 in the spring and that way have fresh oil of proper grade when the season starts (in February?). I've been noticing some oil burn with the 10W30 usage (i.e., premature discoloration to grey/black) and I tend to not go easy on the engine rpm and speed wise.

TooMuchFun

[Ultranaught]

If you have a big block, you may still have oil burn. The Mag HO or MAG MPI engines use forged pistons. For whatever the reason, they pass more oil by than cast pistons I have been told.
I used to burn about 1 qt. per 10 hrs with my twin 502 Mag MPIs. The Mechanic at the dealer told me this is normal with big blocks, 496 HO included. In fact the 496 in my suburban burns about 1 qt. for about 3k miles.

[TooMuchFun]

Same experience in the 650 big block ... every 8-10 hours I add a quart, and my Suburban 3/4 ton with the bigger engine does the same ...

I was out comparing oil with my brother's relatively new Volvo 350, and after we each had about 10 hours on the oil, mine is greyish and his still looks like it came out of the can.

TooMuchFun

[Ultranaught]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Nov. 04 2003, 11:57 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Same experience in the 650 big block ... every 8-10 hours I add a quart, and my Suburban 3/4 ton with the bigger engine does the same ...

I was out comparing oil with my brother's relatively new Volvo 350, and after we each had about 10 hours on the oil, mine is greyish and his still looks like it came out of the can.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yeah, kind of the same thing as with the oil use. The oil gets grubby faster because of the blowby I think. I used to change the oil in my 502s every 35 hours because of that. The oil in my current 350 stays nice and clean for a lot longer and it doesn't use any at all.

[Essex502]

I have never seen oil discoloration in our 502 MAG which is completely stock. I also haven't experienced the so-called "black transom" effect not consuption of oil (more that maybe 1 quart per season). Though I only have 85 hours or so in 4 seasons boating with oil changes at the beginning of each season.

[TooMuchFun]

For Essex 502, aside from the GM 540ci 8.8 liter block almost nothing is stock in what I run and that may account for some things, and with forged pistons I am told that the engine will burn a quart or so of oil every 8-10 hours during the initial 50 hours of breakin until the rings and seals completely seat themselves. I run these big Keith Eckert Headers with straight thru risers and some say that this contributes to what Ultranaught talks about as blowby effect. The engine builder recommends that I change the oil every 10-30 hours depending on how hard I am running. I'm also attributing the level of oil color change to a need to move to heavier weight oil per recommendations (e.g., 15W50 or straight 40 weight). When I run 91-92 octane I get a black transom effect when I run hard (3500-5200 rpms) for multiple periods of 1/2 hour or so, particularly when I run from the south end of the lake up through the narrows and points beyond, but the higher octane makes for better accelreation and top end performance. When I run leaner, 87-89 octane, the black transom effect is not as apparent and when only running for an hour or two is non-existent.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

TMF - I was commenting more on Ultranaught's 502 experiences. I wonder what the difference in clearances are between a stock Mercruiser 502 MAG and your motor? Especially things like piston clearance and ring gap. We had a lot of oil discoloration back in my drag racing days when the ring gaps got to large. Especially with a new motor using stainless steel rings until they seated. Change oil every 10 runs or so with our stock and super stock cars. More often when when ran the modified class cars. I read somewhere also that oil discoloration can occur with some synthetic oils because of the the structural changes in the antioxident additive package. Whether or not this is occuring, I wouldn't guess but something is going on.

Why not try soemthing like Amsoil's 20W-50 Racing oil? Seems to be a good solution if you want to use a synthetic.

[TooMuchFun]

Essex 502 -- good points ... I'm not sure what the specific clearances are but they are greater than the 502, and I believe I do have stainless rings. Most of the differences lie in the piston setup, crank and cam shafts, fuel injection setup and fuel flow (the ports below the flame arrestor are huge), and the header and riser setup.

How do I get my hands on Amsoil 20W50 synthetic racing oil info. and potential purchase. I know someone on this site sells the stuff??? I'm thinking it is similar to the Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic as it is billed as a racing oil also. Bottom line is that I will drop out for new oil this spring and begin changing more often ... I did the breakin oil for about 16 hours (plus the engine had some time on the dyno post build), then did about 35 hours on 10W30. Then dumped again and have about 5 hours on another oil change. I just need to change more often and find the right stuff to use ... I've had a few folks look at the oil post use and they were not concerned about the discoloration based on use, but I remain obsessive.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Nov. 07 2003, 08:52 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Essex 502 -- good points ... I'm not sure what the specific clearances are but they are greater than the 502, and I believe I do have stainless rings. Most of the differences lie in the piston setup, crank and cam shafts, fuel injection setup and fuel flow (the ports below the flame arrestor are huge), and the header and riser setup.

How do I get my hands on Amsoil 20W50 synthetic racing oil info. and potential purchase. I know someone on this site sells the stuff??? I'm thinking it is similar to the Mobil 1 15W50 synthetic as it is billed as a racing oil also. Bottom line is that I will drop out for new oil this spring and begin changing more often ... I did the breakin oil for about 16 hours (plus the engine had some time on the dyno post build), then did about 35 hours on 10W30. Then dumped again and have about 5 hours on another oil change. I just need to change more often and find the right stuff to use ... I've had a few folks look at the oil post use and they were not concerned about the discoloration based on use, but I remain obsessive.

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You might just for a short test try a single weight petroleum based oil such as the Kendall Racing 40wt I use - just to see if the discoloration is really related to the synthetic oil. Just a thought. The problem with the short drain intervals is the cost of the synthetic is sometime 3X the cost of the Kendall.

See the following links:
Amsoil Racing Oil (http://www.authorized-amsoil-dealer-for-synthetic-motor-oil.com/amsoil_articles/oil-comparison-on-the-dynometer/)

Amsoil Corp. (http://amsoil.com/)

Rude can get you all the Amsoil you want, I would guess. With your usage and time on the water you might want to take advantage of the volume discount that barrels of the stuff can bring! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As I said somewhere on this site...I used to use the Amsoil in our drag cars - stock, super stock and modified classes - back in the 70's. We also had Tom Hoover of Funny Car fame try it in his blower motors and it did a wonderful job but Amsoil paid no "continguency money" so none of the pros would use it. Plus, changing oil every run got to be pretty expensive at $6.00 a quart.

We noticed a lot of blowby with S.S. rings until they seated. It usually took 10-15 passes down the 1/4 mile before the smoking and oil contamination went away.

[TooMuchFun]

Thanks for the info. I'll catch up with Rude on the Amsoil product. Mobil 1 15W50 is $5 a quart ... not much difference. I use about 10 each change ... 8 in the engine, 1 in the filter, and 1-2 in the pre-oiler. If I have someone else do it, it runs about $80-100 per oil change.

My brother uses the 15W50 synthetic in his stock 350 engine and it looks clear as the day it came out of the can. So, it is either the engine burn or too light a weight use.

TooMuchFun

[Ultranaught]

BTW guys, I used Red Line Oil Â*20w 50 in my 502s for a couple of oil changes and the results were no different than the Mobil 1. Â*Both engines were the same.
The Red Line Oil is comparable to Amsoil in all respects...(I am sure Rude 235 won't agree) but they are rated the same (8 bucks a quart too).
I think the big blocks just contaminate the oil more and that Â*is why most people recommend changing the oil in the big blocks much more frequently than in the small blocks...
Oh and I think the Mobil 1 is 4.08 at Wal Mart, someone else recently posted that they had found it at Autozone for 3.99 on sale.

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[REVOLVER38]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ultranaught @ Nov. 11 2003, 10:31 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">BTW guys, I used Red Line Oil Â*20w 50 in my 502s for a couple of oil changes and the results were no different than the Mobil 1. Â*Both engines were the same.
The Red Line Oil is comparable to Amsoil in all respects...(I am sure Rude 235 won't agree) but they are rated the same (8 bucks a quart too).
I think the big blocks just contaminate the oil more and that Â*is why most people recommend changing the oil in the big blocks much more frequently than in the small blocks...
Oh and I think the Mobil 1 is 4.08 at Wal Mart, someone else recently posted that they had found it at Autozone for 3.99 on sale.

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I found Mercury marine 25-40wt Quicksilver to be the best for marine engines. It can be bought at Boaters World.com for 2.69 per quart, and you get free shipping for any order over $100 bucks. Check out thier website. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Rude]

it's been a while since i've checked this thread. 502, you are correct.....i can get as much amsoil stuff as needed. amsoil does have oils that run $8 a qrt but the oils i sell the most of run 5.85/qrt and 6.55/qrt. they do make an oil that is rated to be changed at a 7500 mile drain interval for those that don't feel comfortable with a 25,000 to 35,000 mile drain interval. that 7500 oil goes for $5.20/qrt retail. amsoil also produces it's own filters, now has a deal with bosch, and has numerous other products such as octane boost, cetane boost, propylene glycol antifreeze, etc etc.......lets see, what else can i spam http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif oh yeah, i have a boat for sale http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Red Horse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rude235 @ Dec. 26 2003, 11:13 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">lets see, what else can i spam http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif Â*[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And his customer service is pretty damn good as well!!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Rude]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Horse @ Dec. 26 2003, 11:32 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And his customer service is pretty damn good as well!!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
your check is in the mail ken http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[PUMP 'HER']

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rude235 @ Dec. 26 2003, 11:13 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">oh yeah, i have a boat for sale http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just one?

[Rude]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PUMP 'HER' @ Dec. 30 2003, 9:07 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Just one?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Essex502]

Rude...I used to be an Amsoil dealer back in the 70's and can attest for the quality of the product - very, very good stuff!

Rest of y'all...If you use enough it pays to become a dealer as the discount is pretty good! I don't know what the dealership "kit" costs today but you'll probably save enough the first year to pay for having the dealership by the discounted product cost.

[Rude]

502, you are correct in that it's worth the $$ to sign on as a dealer or a preferred customer. both programs you get dealer prices, as a dealer you can resell the products if you so desire. a preferred customer account costs $20 for the year while the dealership costs $30 for the year with absolutely ZERO requirements. there are also retail accounts and commercial accounts available. i think most of you know how to get in touch with me but if you don't you can contact on this site, or through my site www.lubedealer.com/extremelubricants.

[Essex502]

Just trying to help you a little in promoting the dealership thang (sp), Rude!

[Rude]

thanx bradda!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rivercrazy]

Actually from what I've heard the 496 mag and 496 mag HO both use cast pistons. My 496HO did burn a little oil in the first 20 hours. But ever since doesnt seem to be burning any significant amount. But I do change it every 25 hours.

[speedee28]

I use "Soltron" to make sure my fuel doesn't grow anything during the winter. I used to use in my diesel powered boat and it works great ! The only downside I have noticed is that it does contribute to the black transom discussed in other threads.