Engine Oils

[KC & Karen]

As most of you know I'm a big proponante of Amsoil, used it in all of my motorcycles with great results.

Recently I've been researching oils for both the truck and the 496HO. Based upon what I have found, I'm sticking with Mercruisers reccommendation of Quicksilver 25w40 for the boat. It is blended truer to cude than most multi-viscosity oils, and more importantly does not break down with load and time. If money were no concern then I would run straight Amsoil in the 496HO, but since I do not have a bypass filter so I'm going to stick with something more reasonably priced.

Stoll Engines in Long Beach has 1 gallon jugs of Quicksilver 25w40 for $10.99, that is about $10 cheaper than most retail stores. Your looking at $2.75 per quart, where as the equivalent in Amsoil is over $5 per quart. My compromise is eight quarts of quicksilver 25w40 mixed with two quarts Amsoil.

For the truck I'm going to go with Amsoil 15w40 and a bypass filter, the bypass filter will run me an additional $200 but it should extend the oil changes and the life of the motor significantly.

With the 496HO, I would prefer to change the oil more often and not add a bypass filter.

The real difference comes into play in how the motor is used, in a boat we accelerate and maintain 80% of the engine for long periods of time, so high sheer viscocity is important, that is a measurement of breakdown based upon load, time, and heat. There is nothing better than Amsoil, nothing more expensive either. In a BBC the oil is contaminated with soot and carbon long before the oil looses its lubrication values - so a bypass filter would do a lot of good. Optionally you simply change your oil more often.

That brings up the question, how often do you change your oil? Think of it this way, if you ran the motor in you car at 80+% for twenty hours.... how many miles would you cover? probably running your engine at 80+% would equate to 100+mph, over twenty hours that is only two thousand miles. So an oil change every twenty hours on a boat motor might be ahead of the curve - that is when I change mine at $2.75 per quart.

Something to consider.....

KC

[KC & Karen]

FYI....

If you rated oils on a scale of 0 being the worst and 1000 being the best. Amsoil products would be in the range of 750 with very few oils with a higher rating, and the oils you can buy at Wal-Mart such as Chevron Delo 400 would rate in at about 640, Penzoil that you could buy in 7-11 or Autozone would come in at about 280.

Bottom line follows something along the lines of the following:

Quicksilver 4-Cycle marine engine lubricant is a specially blended oil which is intended for use in our MerCruiser products. This is not an off the shelf automotive type lubricant but is specially formulated to incorporate the features needed to satisfy the unique operating environment of marine products.

Quicksilver oil is classified as a 25W40 multiviscosity lubricant. The multiviscosity properties are obtained by blending very special base stocks eliminating the need for the synthetic polymers commonly used to give automotive lubricants their multiviscosity properties. Quicksilver oil is a Newtonian fluid which means that the viscosity does not change with the rate of flow. Automotive oils using a synthetic polymer to make a 10 weight base oil have the added viscometric properties of a 30 or 40 weight oil are called non-Newtonian fluids. The viscosity does tend to change with flow rate due to the "shearing" or breaking apart of the long "strands" of the polymer. There are some polymers which experience permanent shear loss resulting in a subsequent change in viscosity.

MerCruiser products are designed to operate at very high speeds and loads when compared to a passenger car. These extreme operating conditions can shear the polymers used in some automotive oils. The result is a dramatic loss in oil pressure and potential engine damage. To eliminate this problem and still provide a lubricant capable of being used throughout a range of operating temperatures and conditions. Quicksilver 25W40 is formulated without any polymers.

The requirements of a marine lubricant extend beyond the need to perform well at high speeds and loads. Extended periods of idle or trolling create the need for the oil to continue to function even when diluted with fuel and moisture. Quicksilver 25W40 has a unique "marine" additive package to deal with the potential problems caused by these operating conditions. Some of the polymers used in multiviscosity oils are hygroscopic (water gathering) and form a light brown emulsion usually observed in the crankcase breather areas. The marine environment, being very "wet" tends to accentuate this problem. Emulsified polymer is no longer available to help the 10 weight base oil maintain 30 or 40 weight properties.

[digginfordollars]

Somebody has to make that oil for Mercury. As far as I know Merc doesn't have any refineries. Chevron, Exxon, etc. There is probably the same oil in a different bottle somewhere for half the price.

[kevnmcd]

KC - Unlike my posts...yours are always full of useful info. I change my oil once a season. I probably average about 30-35 hours a season. I also do the outdrive once a season as well. Since my motor is not under warranty, I use Castrol 20-50w in it. My feeling is that oil is oil for the most part (you all can jump on me for that comment if you want http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ). I change it frequently enough so that I feel it never fully breaks down. Like you said you can spend a small fortune on oils, but how much better is the expensive stuff? Is it going to make your engine last longer? Will we ever know?

BTW - What is a bypass filter? I am not familiar with it.

[KC & Karen]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ Sep. 10 2003, 8:26 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">KC - Unlike my posts...yours are always full of useful info. Â*I change my oil once a season. Â*I probably average about 30-35 hours a season. Â*I also do the outdrive once a season as well. Â*Since my motor is not under warranty, I use Castrol 20-50w in it. Â*My feeling is that oil is oil for the most part (you all can jump on me for that comment if you want http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif ). Â*I change it frequently enough so that I feel it never fully breaks down. Â*Like you said you can spend a small fortune on oils, but how much better is the expensive stuff? Â*Is it going to make your engine last longer? Â*Will we ever know?

BTW - What is a bypass filter? Â*I am not familiar with it.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
The important part is to change the oil often, especially on a BBC.

Bypass filter sends a potion of the oil flow through a specialised filter to remove particlaes as small as 3 microns, your filter is running at maybe 50 microns. Helps reduce wear, helps to extend change intervals - only cost justifiable for really exepensive oils.

In the morning I'll post some comparison of oils - in a few words, run a straight grade 40w Chevron Delo 400 in the 502. Stoll Engines carries that oil at a good price, let me know if you want me to pick some up for you. The straight 40w is significantly better than castrol 20w50 and potentially cheaper in cost. Its insurance incase you forget to top off the oil, or extend the change interval.

KC

[KC & Karen]

Save some money, put Amsoil in the outdrive and you'll be set for years.

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KC &amp; Karen @ Sep. 10 2003, 8:53 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In the morning I'll post some comparison of oils - in a few words, run a straight grade 40w Chevron Delo 400 in the 502. Â*Stoll Engines carries that oil at a good price, let me know if you want me to pick some up for you. Â*The straight 40w is significantly better than castrol 20w50 and potentially cheaper in cost. Â*Its insurance incase you forget to top off the oil, or extend the change interval.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why is straight 40w better? I would be interested in knowing more. Thanks.

[TooMuchFun]

My .02 -- I run a synthetic oil (Mobile 1 supersyn, fully synthetic, 10W30 or 10W15 depending on conditions). I also use a FilterMag (1 800-345-8376) which is a strong 1/2 circle magnet that attaches to the filter ... worth it's weight in gold. It pulls all the small metal particles from the oil as it passes the filter and holds in the filter until the next oil change. HotBoat did an article on this product awhile ago and showed micron pics of a filter cut in half -- one with the FilterMag and one without on twin 502s. I also change the oil every 50 hrs., and every 25 if I'm running the engine exceptionally hard, which equates to 1-2 oil changes during the season and one at the end of season to prepare for the next season. Volvo (the drive I run) also recommends a fully synthetic oil in the drive and offers a good product for such which I use.

This approach has really put off engine refurbishing from the 400-500 hr. range to close to the 1000 hr. mark (on older engines of mine in other boats).

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

I change the oil every year at the beginning of the season and have used only Kendall 40 wt. Racing oil as per Teague's recommendation from the first 25 hr service on. Since we only have 86 hours on the motor in 4 seasons you can see we change the oil more frequently than the recommended 25 hour interval. I choose the beginning of the season due to wanting to take the winter condensation out of the system BEFORE running the motor in the spring. Letting the oil sit in the crankcase over the winter will allow condensation build up in the oil. The condensation mixed with the by products of combustion, I am told, form sulfric acid which breaks down the additive package in most petroleum based oils. Amsoil and other 100% synthetic resist this breakdown. I also change the drive lube every season regardless of what is in it or how many hours.

[Red Horse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Sep. 11 2003, 06:55 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Letting the oil sit in the crankcase over the winter will allow condensation build up in the oil. The condensation mixed with the by products of combustion, I am told, form sulfric acid which breaks down the additive package in most petroleum based oils. Amsoil and other 100% synthetic resist this breakdown. I also change the drive lube every season regardless of what is in it or how many hours.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I change the oil in my boat at the end of the season for that reason. I want to get the corrosive particles out of my engine. My belief is that marine engines sit for a majority of their life. If the internal components are not coated with good new oil, then pitting can occur. I also every month or so crank mine over once or twice to stir things up. I used to run Castrol 20-50 synthetic. Now, nothing but Amsoil. My oil pressure does not go down after the engine warms up, at high RPM the pressure stays the same. I think it is good for my engine. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif Like most mechanical things, if you dont use them they tend to fall apart.

[KC & Karen]

In the world of ranking oils, 0 being the worst:
20W50 76 Lubricants Nascar Synthetic scores 786
20W50 Red Line Passenger scores 778
20W50 Amsoil S2000 scores 752
20W50 76 Lubricants Nascar HP scores 712
40W Chevron Delo 400 scores 665
20W50 Catrol Syntec Blend scores 653
20W50 Castrol GTX scores 636
20W50 Castrol Syntec scores 611

Simply change your oil frequently, regardless of the brand. By going with a straight grade oil such as 40w, you can stay clear of polymer breakdown that occurs over load and time.

Have fun, be safe, KC

[kevnmcd]

My Castrol GTX scored a 636....not too bad.

[duckbutter]

where's my parts plus 10w 30 http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Essex502]

I can't understand how the ranking was done on the Motor Oil Site. Doens't seem to be any documentation (unless you're a paid member) that describes the algorithm used for weighting the various test categories. Any insights KC?

[KC & Karen]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Sep. 11 2003, 1:53 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I can't understand how the ranking was done on the Motor Oil Site. Doens't seem to be any documentation (unless you're a paid member) that describes the algorithm used for weighting the various test categories. Any insights KC?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I found the pdf on another site, that guy must have been a paying member, no insite as to ranking algorythm.

[Essex502]

The site seems to have a wealth of info - too bad it's a "pay to play" site. Interesting to see where all of the different oils rank. The full list is impressive. I tried to "highlight and copy/paste" to a text file in order to import as a CSV into Excel so I could rearrange the oils in order of the different tests and rankings...unfortunately, the copy/paste/CSV was more work than I wanted to put into it.

Still...interesting site.

[KC & Karen]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Sep. 12 2003, 06:49 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The site seems to have a wealth of info - too bad it's a "pay to play" site. Interesting to see where all of the different oils rank. The full list is impressive. I tried to "highlight and copy/paste" to a text file in order to import as a CSV into Excel so I could rearrange the oils in order of the different tests and rankings...unfortunately, the copy/paste/CSV was more work than I wanted to put into it.

Still...interesting site.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I looked for the actual site where I found the pdf file but could not find it again, there is a second file that is sorted by oil weight and rank. Do not know the details of what the columns indicate, but it is interesting. Spent some time looking for some of the oils on the list, most are Fleet type oils that you can buy in bulk. Interesting to see that some of the off the shelf oils do pretty well.

[Ultranaught]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ Sep. 10 2003, 9:19 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My .02 -- I run a synthetic oil (Mobile 1 supersyn, fully synthetic, 10W30 or 10W15 depending on conditions). I also use a FilterMag (1 800-345-8376) which is a strong 1/2 circle magnet that attaches to the filter ... worth it's weight in gold. It pulls all the small metal particles from the oil as it passes the filter and holds in the filter until the next oil change. HotBoat did an article on this product awhile ago and showed micron pics of a filter cut in half -- one with the FilterMag and one without on twin 502s. I also change the oil every 50 hrs., and every 25 if I'm running the engine exceptionally hard, which equates to 1-2 oil changes during the season and one at the end of season to prepare for the next season. Volvo (the drive I run) also recommends a fully synthetic oil in the drive and offers a good product for such which I use.

This approach has really put off engine refurbishing from the 400-500 hr. range to close to the 1000 hr. mark (on older engines of mine in other boats).

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
my .02....Nothing more, nothing less...
I have used Full Synthetic oil for over 10 years now. I have used the Mercruiser 25w 40 conventional oil during the warranty period, and changed to the synthetic oil again following the warranty expiration. In my opinion and the written recommendations of a lot of engine builders too, there is no substitute for a quality high viscosity multiweight synthetic oil.
I have tried Amsoil, Red Line, Castrol Syntec and Mobil 1 supersyn.
So far as price for performance, I am sold on the Mobil 1. Best bang for the buck (my opinion) as the Amsoil and Redline cost about 2x the price of Mobil 1.
I have used the 15w-50 weight which is closer to the recommended weight of the Mercruiser oil as well. .
I don't know what I lead you to the choice of oil weight, but I think there may be a potential problem. Due to the extreme duty loads of Marine engines, lighter weight oils may be causing significant wear within your engine
Everything I have read (including columns from Teague in powerboat) recommends either a 15w-50 or a 20w-50 weight synthetic or a quality single weight conventional oil due to the extreme loads under which Marine engines run vs. automobiles.
I ran my old 21' daycruiser with the 350 King Cobra using the Mobil 1 and with over 1200 hours of hard use it is still kicking almost like new (sold it to my neighbor). I used Mobil 1 in my Eliminator Eagle with twin 502 Mag MPIs (post warranty) and the engines valve/lifter noise quieted significantly with the synthetic oil.
Anyway, Engine oil is one of those things everyone has an opinion on, but just to be safe you may want to call Teague or email him and ask his recommendation, you may be surprised at his opinion. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[TooMuchFun]

ULtranaught -- detailed reply appreciated. I'm going to give Innovation a call to check on recommended engine oil weight ... better safe than sorry later.

All else agreed ... the Mobil 1 fully synthetic product is great stuff and is pretty economical to boot http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif. I also installed a preoiler which really helps. The engine is turnkey first time every time on the start now and definitely runs smoother and quieter as it warms up. I can also tell the difference at WOT with the synthetic post breakin ... quiet and smooth.

TooMuchFun

[Ultranaught]

Cool, I agree on the perception that the engine is smoother and quieter. Â*I wish I had the scratch to invest in a pre-oiler system, but my new boat is actually 10 years old and I think it is probably not worth the investment at this point. Maybe if I slam in a new engine in the future.Â*
As for the weights of the oil, the lighter weights are still awesome, but using those goes against everything I have read over the last 25 years of boating. Â*Let me know what they have to say...

Thanks,

[TooMuchFun]

Ultranaught -- replies from Teague, Innovation (who built my engine), and some others include; Teague -- anything over 600hp use a straight 40W designed for racing, no blends, they recommended Kendall. Synthetic or not doesn't matter and they do not use synthetic. Innovation and Volvo -- next oil change switch to the 15W50 that Mobil 1 Full Sythetic comes in.

All said that because I am probably not running WOT for extended periods (e.g., racing to Catalina), tend to run a range of speeds akin to breakin rec.s, and am running in cool h2o for the most part (<80 degrees), and the engine has a self-contained cooling system, that there is a low probability that I have hurt the engine with the 10W30. All said that switching to a heavier weight over the life of the engine will help as a precautionary measure though. I think I will go with the 15W50 next change as that is what Volvo and the engine builder recommend, I like the synthetic stuff, and I am not racing and should not need a straight weight.

TooMuchFun

[Ultranaught]

Too Much Fun...gotta love that handle...

Anyway, I am sure you are right as far as damage to your engine. I think that the damage (if any) would likely be accelerated wear, not major parts breaking. Â*If you have only been doing it for a couple of hundred hours, I can't believe it would hurt anything besides it is not like your are using a cheap lubricant. Â* I am sure UB fine.
I could have sworn it was Teague, but it may have been Tyler Crockett in Powerboat. Â*Now was that Gary Teague or Bob Teague? Oh well, you know what they say, memory is the first thing to go...

[TooMuchFun]

Ultranaught ... agreed on all counts. Innovation stressed the heavier weight in warmer temps. For example, they recommend a 10W30 in high elevation and freezing weather for easier starting and quicker lubrication when running ... heavier weights in the desert. I will probably keep the current 10W30 in the engine now for I tend to run in the cold and then dump next spring sometime as it warms up and go with the 15W50. All also recommended dumping the oil every 10-20 hours and never wait longer than 30 between changes. Also, I've only got 50+ hours on the engine so far so I should be fine ... it's still breaking in and burning some oil (about a quart every 10 hours) as the rings and etc. seat themselves.

PS -- My memory went a long time ago to the point that my older kids now in college send me comical birthday cards with brain cells jumping out of an old geezer's head.

TooMuchFun

[Ultranaught]

Good point on the oil change intervals. Merc recommends 100 hours, I went with 30 to 35. The oil really takes a beating in our little beauties...
Yeah, I get the same cards from my offspring. Mine are now in their mid to late 20s and have kids of their own...
I suppose I should stick with more general statements like "a well respected engine builder" cuz I don't remember which one!!! LOL Damn brain cells...LOL

[Rude]

i'm a big fan of amsoil (of course) and what i can't figure out about teague, i'm pretty sure it's his add in hotboat that shows him as a dealer for the stuff. so if he doesn't recommend for big hp motors, what does he recommend it for? i finally got the boat swithced over from kendall 20w50 to amsoil 20w50 and seem to have better oil pressure. i'm also pretty shocked that they are telling you to use a non synthetic because most fossile oils contain waxes in them which in no good for a motor. i also put amsoil in my outdrive where it's a proven fact that synthetics drop the temps. in fact, b-max outdrives only use amsoil.

[Ultranaught]

Yeah, nearly every article I have read by any of the major engine builders that discusses engine oil extolls the virtue of synthetic oil. Â*And you are spot on,there are no organic contaminants to turn into nasty crap in the engine. Â*
I don't get Teague either, I have read articles and columns that indicate a significant measurable increase in performance with synthetic Â*due to its superior lubrication properties. Â*And trouble is, I SWEAR I read one of HIS columns advising someone to change to a 20w 50 synthetic...this is really bugging me!
I also liked the Amsoil, and the Red Line was comparable in every way. Â*What I did not like was the friggin price. Â*I like the 80/20 rule. Â*With synthetic oils it is almost the 99/1 rule. When you get to the good synthetics on the market (the consumer market lets call it) like Mobil 1, Syntec and Valvoline getting another 1 or 2% in the rating score (posted previously) costs you double. Â*I guess it just depends on what you like, and better oil is not a bad investment...

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ultranaught @ Oct. 20 2003, 7:35 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Too Much Fun...gotta love that handle...

Anyway, I am sure you are right as far as damage to your engine. I think that the damage (if any) would likely be accelerated wear, not major parts breaking. Â*If you have only been doing it for a couple of hundred hours, I can't believe it would hurt anything besides it is not like your are using a cheap lubricant. Â* I am sure UB fine.
I could have sworn it was Teague, but it may have been Tyler Crockett in Powerboat. Â*Now was that Gary Teague or Bob Teague? Oh well, you know what they say, memory is the first thing to go...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ultranaught - I used to have my motor's annual service done at Teague Marine (Bob Teague) and he always put 40wt Kendall Racing oil in it. That's all he sell's over the counter as far as I know. There also was a Q/A section in Powerboat where I believe he stated that he didn't like using synthetic oil in the motor but recommended it in the outdrive. His rationale as I remember was the the synthetic oil's lubricity was too high and abnormal wear was present on the roller rockers. He claimed (again my memory) that the synthetic allowed the rollers to slide and not roll across the valve stem tips. That's what I remember. I used to be an Amsoil dealer years ago and believe highly in synthetics but use the recommended 40wt Kendall Racing in the motor and synthetic everywhere else including my street vehicles. In fact...my BMW came from the factory with synthetic and that's is all that's certified for use in it.

I'll try to look up the exact issue of Powerboat where Bob Teague made the comment. I should have it at home.

[Essex502]

One other comment...I change the oil at the beginning of the season each year and only put 20-25 hours on the boat during the season. Total of 80 hours now in 4 seasons.

[TooMuchFun]

Now you all are making me paranoid ... my engine upgrade was an investment to the point that I am only willing to do what makes it perform the best and last the longest ... now I've got to decide to drop the oil that's in it before it's next scheduled change and what to put in???

I seem to remember also, though very foggy, the article Essex 502 is referring to.

PS -- Essex 502 -- only 20-25 hours a season? I would freak out, have a brain infarction, quit my job, and go boating to escape if I only got to use the toy that often. I put the new engine in over the past winter, began testing and using in late Jan., and am moving toward 100 hours with the season not over yet.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

The first year we only had three trips out of our local area and struggled finding the time to get the first 20 hours for the break-in period! Now that we have a house in Havasu and were out every other weekend from May to September and still only put on 20 hours or so! Most of the time we blast up the river/lake and find a nice spot to anchor/beach and hang out with friends. No hourmeter captures that! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Ultranaught]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Oct. 21 2003, 06:28 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ultranaught @ Oct. 20 2003, 7:35 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I could have sworn it was Teague, but it may have been Tyler Crockett in Powerboat. Â*Now was that Gary Teague or Bob Teague? Oh well, you know what they say, memory is the first thing to go...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Ultranaught - I used to have my motor's annual service done at Teague Marine (Bob Teague) and he always put 40wt Kendall Racing oil in it. That's all he sell's over the counter as far as I know. There also was a Q/A section in Powerboat where I believe he stated that he didn't like using synthetic oil in the motor but recommended it in the outdrive. His rationale as I remember was the the synthetic oil's lubricity was too high and abnormal wear was present on the roller rockers. He claimed (again my memory) that the synthetic allowed the rollers to slide and not roll across the valve stem tips. That's what I remember. I used to be an Amsoil dealer years ago and believe highly in synthetics but use the recommended 40wt Kendall Racing in the motor and synthetic everywhere else including my street vehicles. In fact...my BMW came from the factory with synthetic and that's is all that's certified for use in it.

I'll try to look up the exact issue of Powerboat where Bob Teague made the comment. I should have it at home.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I guess those birthday cards were right. I really thought it was Bob Teague, sounds like that memory must be one I dreamed up.
Anyway, I understand all that you have said, and like I said earlier engine oil is one of those things everyone has an opinon on. There are a few things you mentioned that really seem counterintuitive to me:

I paraphrase:
1. Lubricity is too high causing higher wear
2. Use synthetic in the drive but not the engine.

Both of those statements seem mutually exclusive to me. I understand the issues with the roller valve train, but I know my 502s sounded and ran 100% better with synthetic oil and they had a roller valve train.
The loads are almost certainly more concentrated in the drives, but why does that exclude the worth of the superior lubricity, detergency and stability of synthetic in the engine. It sounds a little like Teague has gotten stuck in a bit of a rut, but he is a very smart and far more qualified man than I so...again I think it comes down to opinions.

The preponderance of information I have read is that synthetic oils (detergent grades) work exceptionally well in marine engines, Teague's comments aside. I know he has his reasons, but they sound an awful lot like opinions. I say if it works and you are comfortable with it, use it.

That old OMC King Cobra still has nearly stock compression with over 1200 hours on it and purrs like a kitten. That is good enough for me, and the quieting of the engines also tells me a lot.

I put a lot more hours on my boats up here than a lot of folks seem to down there. Just like you said head up to the sandbar and hang all day.

The Eliminator I just sold only had 120 hours on it in three years and I sold it due to lack of use. I put 300 hours on that king cobra the first year I owned it. The synthetic oil has performed exceptionally well for me.

I expect to use the heck out of my Ultra like my older daycruiser. I will continue to use the same Mobil 1 15w 50 oil that has proven its worth to me in well over 12 years of use. If you like the 40wt Kendall then you should stick with it. Like I said, it is all what you are comfortable with...

[Rude]

i think ultra has a pretty good point. there seems to be a bunch of statements about synthetics that are contradictary to each other depending on who you talk to. many new cars (vettes, bmw, mercedes...etc) are coming from the factory with synthetic oils. i would imagine they are more advanced than the motors that are being put into our boats. as far as price goes, amsoil has oil ranging from about $5.20 to $8.35 per quart retail. i don't think that is far off of mobil 1 prices. i was at west marine the other day and noticed they now carry pensoil synthetic 2 stroke oil......$26.00 per gallon!!!!! amsoil's is a bit over $19 per gallon retail. i paid enough for my boat that i'm willing to pay a few extra bucks for oil.

[Ultranaught]

Rude, the mobil 1 costs me about 4.40 or there abouts at the Wal Mart...
I buy synthetic for my jet skis too. The synthetic oil for my Sea Doo GTX DI costs about $36 per gallon. Worth every penny in my opinion.
I just don't understand the counter intuitive statements by Teague. Regardless I have had 12 years of good experience with many many hours under the belt and in my book it has proven the synthetic oil technology to me.

[Rude]

$36 per gallon!!!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!!! now that's spendy. amsoil is the only oil i know that guarantees their oil not to cause an oil related failure. they have oils that are designed to run 35,000 miles without being changed....i'm sold! everything i own runs on synthetics.

[Ultranaught]

The Sea Doo oil is especially designed for the Direct Fuel Injection 2 stroke engine. It does not ever mix with fuel like most 2 stroke oils (until it ends up in the combustion cylinder) so that is one of the reasons it is so expensive.

[Essex502]

Teague apparently had at least three comments on oil in Powerboat. The October 2001 issue I don't have so I can't specifically state what he said.

August 2002

On a question about which Redline synthetic oil to use:
"I would use the 15W-50 weight oil in most boating climates."

April 2003
On a question about about whether or not to use synthetic oils in marine applications:
"There are a lot of good synthetic oils out there for most automotive and some racing applications. But it is commonly felt that petroleum-based straight-grade oils are more desirable for marine engines. Marine engines tend to contaminate oil more quickly than automotive engines. This is because of the presence of moisture and a tendency to have more fuel contamination in the crankcase. The problem is related to the effect of the additive package than the base oil itself. Mutliviscosity oils that rely on chemical reaction to simulate a more viscous oil when hot can lose their ability to perform well, and may get too thin for the extreme laods and elevated temperatures."

Clear as mud?

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Rude]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Oct. 22 2003, 6:37 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"There are a lot of good synthetic oils out there for most automotive and some racing applications. But it is commonly felt that petroleum-based straight-grade oils are more desirable for marine engines. Marine engines tend to contaminate oil more quickly than automotive engines. This is because of the presence of moisture and a tendency to have more fuel contamination in the crankcase. The problem is related to the effect of the additive package than the base oil itself. Mutliviscosity oils that rely on chemical reaction to simulate a more viscous oil when hot can lose their ability to perform well, and may get too thin for the extreme laods and elevated temperatures."

Clear as mud?

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HUH?http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?? i'm not a motor builder but why would there be more moisture in a marine engine? i realize that it's in a boat, but it's a sealed unit.....right?? if you're getting moisture in the motor, isn't there a problem besides what oil you're using?

[Ultranaught]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (rude235 @ Oct. 22 2003, 7:20 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ Oct. 22 2003, 6:37 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"There are a lot of good synthetic oils out there for most automotive and some racing applications. But it is commonly felt that petroleum-based straight-grade oils are more desirable for marine engines. Marine engines tend to contaminate oil more quickly than automotive engines. This is because of the presence of moisture and a tendency to have more fuel contamination in the crankcase. The problem is related to the effect of the additive package than the base oil itself. Mutliviscosity oils that rely on chemical reaction to simulate a more viscous oil when hot can lose their ability to perform well, and may get too thin for the extreme laods and elevated temperatures."

Clear as mud?

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
HUH?http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif?? Â*i'm not a motor builder but why would there be more moisture in a marine engine? Â*i realize that it's in a boat, but it's a sealed unit.....right?? Â*if you're getting moisture in the motor, isn't there a problem besides what oil you're using?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
He has a point, the engines sit for long periods of time in winter and that allows condensation to form inside. That is one of the reasons you are supposed to change the oil at the end of the season, as the contaminants inside the motor can combine with moisture from condensation during lay up and form nasty stuff like Nitric Acid.
They really are anything but sealed with vents on each valve cover, it is really pretty much wide open to moisture.
Regardless, the issue with multi viscosity petroleum oils is discussed widely. The petroleum oil base and the synthetic modifiers only coexist but do not really act as one compound.
That is supposed to be one of the advantages of the synthetic oil, the base and modifiers are more chemically similar...but who the hell knows. Like I said in about four other posts, I have 12 years of exceptional performance to prove the case to me...but if you have doubts, go with the merc oil, at least the manufacturer recommends it...!

[TooMuchFun]

Teague must have a deal with Kendall http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Every other individual I talked to, Innovation, Arizona Speed and Marine, a high performance dealer crony of mine in Albuquerque, and etc. all agree that a good 15W50 synthetic is the way to go in a marine engine, and a lighter 10W30 synthetic might be appropriate in cold weather, and that engine oil should be changed every 30 hours or less depending on how hard you are driving the engine and how many hp it is. Harder racing and higher hp and more often.

For one reason or another, and I have not gotten to Shane at Offshore yet, they use 10W30 in all their own personal boat engines ... mostly in high performance eliminators and advantages with engines in the 400-600 hp range.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

I'd like to see what Teague said in the one issue I don't have...

I agree...some of his arguments seem out of line with what I know about synthetic...

Rude: Doesn't Amsoil make a single weight synthetic? I doubt the temperature affects it much!

[Ultranaught]

Essex,

I know that the high performance oil companies, Amsoil and Red Line to name two do make single weight synthetic oils. Just have to be careful as some are not detergent oils. I think they are assuming that they will be run in one race and changed. Regardless the detergency is very important...just food for thought...

Rob

[Rude]

502, as a matter of fact they do have a single weight oil. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif