Loud exhaust

[Fireman2]

This weekend at Lake Mead I was stopped by the NPS just outside Sandy Cove. I was stopped for my custom NV Numbers on the front of my boat. He then proceeded to give the whole check for coast gaurd safety stuff, life jackets,fire extinguisher, throw cusion and registration. Which I gladly showed him. he then administered a DUI test which I passed. He then took out his funny little Digital Decible tester comlplete with microphone. He says " your exhaust is way too loud and I should give you a ticket for it." I told him I was not aware that Lake Mead had such a law. Well there is and the NPS is enforcing it. What a stupid rule. People love a good throaty sounding boat. What the hell is the problem?
Well I escaped a ticket by the seat of my pants. I just thoght you all should know about this...
Dusty

[beer hunter]

That sucks http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif What type of engine/exhaust are you running?

[TooMuchFun]

Ditto beerhunter ... what kind of engine and exhaust are you running and did he tell you what the specific decibels were for both the theoretical limitation/law and what he registered for you? I've checked with National Parks and Rec. and there is no decibel noise limitation in NV yet on the federal lakes.

TooMuchFun

[titties and beer]

your lucky thouse dicks were all over the place,one pulled up on us took a good look,then my grandson (2-years old) started waveing hi and he left, and this was at sunset on mead

[jkpruitt]

I just built my baffles and they work great. They really took the BARK out of the exhaust, but let it breath.

[MOWtown]

What really blows about your experience, Fireman, is that he tested your exhaust db's, you "failed" but then he "let you off". Well, then why the f^%k did he test you in the first place if he wasn't going to ticket you for this bs "infraction". Sounds like typical ranger harassment of speed boats. I'm sure he acted like he was doing you a "favor" by not citing you. There are just as many, if not more, drunks and reckless drivers of bayliners and searays but your boat stands out so you get pinched...that sucks.

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like typical ranger harassment of speed boats.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
You may be on to something, It sounds like this ranger just had a hard-on to nail someone but couldn't get you on anything so he played the decible game. I think he probably would have written you the ticket had you failed http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif
Just a guess though http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Dusty Times]

Sounds like he was a little jealous because he has to drive around all day in a Boston Wayler and the park service won't let him put flames on it.

[Rude]

THAT SUX!!!! i don't know of anyone that is using thru transom exhaust (other than pruitt) that is running ANY kind of baffle or exhaust on their boat. i have never heard or read about any kind of exhaust restriction on mead, mojave or havasu. california is just now working out the bugs in their BS laws so i'm pretty sure no other state has or is enforcing any such laws yet.

[titties and beer]

what happens if it's to loud and it's factory?it's just a fix it ticket right? or just a open door to hang your ass for something else http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif .

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ July 06 2003, 7:08 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what happens if it's to loud and it's factory?it's just a fix it ticket right? or just a open door to hang your ass for something else http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif .[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
T&B - It is my understanding when the laws go into effect that whether or not it was factory that you have to quiet them down! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif So that means adding some silencers or some type of exhaust quieting mechanism. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif

[digginfordollars]

Keep in mind here that we are dealing with the NPS and not the state of Nevada or Arizona. They always seem to hassle everybody about loud boats early in the season and then back off later on. It seems like this year they are not backing off.

[jkpruitt]

Hey Digginfordollars:

You heard my exhaust yesterday. Was it to loud?

[ctm23]

hey Dusty, he did not write you a ticket for your exhaust probibly because there was no violation. sounds like he was on a power trip. Just curious, did you ID yourself?

[Essex502]

Exhaust noise levels are going to become more and more of a problem everywhere as new laws are being introduced in several states - including Calif. - regarding boats. Check the threads on HotBoat:

Thread 1 (http://forums.hotboat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search_tng&d=results&record=2452828-103636-35UC)

Thread 2 (http://forums.hotboat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001773)

Thread 3 (http://forums.hotboat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003695;p=2)

Thread 4 (http://forums.hotboat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005200#000000)

Thread 5 (http://forums.hotboat.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=001794)

New testing methods as well as reduced levels that are acceptable are being considered. Sooner or later we all will have to have silencers or mufflers of some kind. It's the "tree huggers" behind all of this nonsense.

[titties and beer]

well i just talked to my friend dan(35 FLAME TWIN 500's) he got a ticket at powell on saturday to loud http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif .so their doing it at powell too http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ July 07 2003, 1:52 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well i just talked to my friend dan(35 FLAME TWIN 500's) he got a ticket at powell on saturday to loud http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif .so their doing it at powell too http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
How much does a ticket like that cost? and can you continue boating that day?

[Essex502]

T&B - How was your friend ticketed? Did they test the boat per the official test proceedure for the state involved? He might have some recourse as there are pretty definitive procedures in place for most states. If it's Utah (which I assume it is) then the following should be seen:

Utah Noise Legislation (http://www.nonoise.org/lawlib/states/utah/water.htm)

[titties and beer]

he did not say how much,he was running about 60 and went around the fish cop and thats how he got him he would not show him how much it read he said 96 ,dan told him if he knew he was going to give him a ticket he would have made him work for it 90+ boston waler's don't go that fast http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif the guy was a real ASSHOLE http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif i'm going to call dan later and find out how much$

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ July 07 2003, 1:52 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well i just talked to my friend dan(35 FLAME TWIN 500's) he got a ticket at powell on saturday to loud http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif .so their doing it at powell too http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Well....this could be a problem? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif You would have thought they would have only given him a warning. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[digginfordollars]

Pruitt, I didn't think it was too loud, sounded good, but probably not from a ranger point of view.

[LakeRacer]

I found these and thought it might be interesting. Remember, it's Federal land (NPS) in the State of Nevada. Both laws can apply...but obviously the more stringent one is what will concern you.

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 2--RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION--Table of Contents

Sec. 2.12 Audio disturbances.

(a) The following are prohibited:
(1) Operating motorized equipment or machinery such as an electric
generating plant, motor vehicle, motorized toy, or an audio device, such
as a radio, television set, tape deck or musical instrument, in a
manner: (i) That exceeds a noise level of 60 decibels measured on the A-
weighted scale at 50 feet; or, if below that level, nevertheless; (ii)
makes noise which is unreasonable, considering the nature and purpose of
the actor's conduct, location, time of day or night, purpose for which
the area was established, impact on park users, and other factors that
would govern the conduct of a reasonably prudent person under the
circumstances.
(2) In developed areas, operating a power saw, except pursuant to
the terms and conditions of a permit.
(3) In nondeveloped areas, operating any type of portable motor or
engine, or device powered by a portable motor or engine, except pursuant
to the terms and conditions of a permit. This paragraph does not apply
to vessels in areas where motor boating is allowed.
(4) Operating a public address system, except in connection with a
public gathering or special event for which a permit has been issued
pursuant to Sec. 2.50 or Sec. 2.51.
(b) Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued in
accordance with section is prohibited and may result in the suspension
or revocation of the permit.


NEVADA HANDBOOK OF BOATING LAWS

Mufflers

All vessels equipped with an engine must be effectively muffled by equipment constructed and used to muffle the noise of the exhaust in a reasonable manner. Excessive noise could prevent a vessel operator from hearing signals and voices.

The use of cutouts is prohibited.

It is illegal to exceed a noise level of:
• 86 dbA measured at a distance of 50 feet or more from the vessel as defined by SAE J34 or...
• 90 dbA measured using a stationary sound level test as defined by SAE J-2005 if the engine was manufactured before January 1, 1993, or 88 dbA if the engine was manufactured on or after January 1, 1993 or...
• 75 dbA measured from the shoreline using a stationary sound level test as defined by SAE J-1970.

Exceptions to the above restrictions are made for vessels participating in permitted races or speed trials.

With regard to the NPS rules...they are pretty loose. Some things to consider: How do they measure and according to what standards? Is the db meter calibrated? Is the officer trained in the proper use of the db meter? What about ambient noise?

[Ratacole]

My ticket was $90 this year at Cottonwood. The cop was a prick & did not give me a warning. The infraction was not having a mechanical muffling device. I was at an idle in the wakeless, so I said to him "I was not too loud" he replied "I dont care, where are your mufflers". I had to go to court in Searchlight and showed the Judge my reciept for my new Zoomies (that now have baffels in them) & it was dismissed. When ever I go out on the weekend, out of a marina I get hasseled.

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well....this could be a problem? Â* You would have thought they would have only given him a warning. Â*

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I wonder if any of the through transom boats in our group could pass that test http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif Â*I hope this ( T&B's friends ticket ) was only some holiday weekend harassment and not a policy of hassling performance boats http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ July 08 2003, 08:12 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">....I hope this ( T&B's friends ticket ) was only some holiday weekend harassment and not a policy of hassling performance boats[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Me, too. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

[MOWtown]

Ratacole, your boat will look sweet with zoomies. Â*Take a picture when you do it.

Mike

[titties and beer]

well i talked to dan and he does not know how much the ticket is yet ,but the fish cop gave him the ticket and,let him go,and told him to have a nice day, sounds like a cash flow problem at fish cop city

[zahndok]

I got ticketed Friday morning for too loud at idle pulling into Sandy Cove. Â*93db. $107. Didn't like my custom paint AZ #'s either. Â*Stated he could take me off the water till it's fixed. Â*Doesn't matter if you have baffles ect. Believe me, none of you with performance motors are gonna pass. Â*The #'s thing was just unbelievable. Left a big black rubber mark on my hull I found later from tying up to me. Â*Should send him a bill. Did I say I was very frustrated?

[titties and beer]

o-ya he said the f-cop said you have to have 2-fire-ex if your motor is covered http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif and when you see a cop go slow and have all you paper and safety stuff in order

[Ratacole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (zahndok @ July 08 2003, 2:05 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I got ticketed Friday morning for too loud at idle pulling into Sandy Cove. Â*93db. $107. Didn't like my custom paint AZ #'s either. Â*Stated he could take me off the water till it's fixed. Â*Doesn't matter if you have baffles ect. Believe me, none of you with performance motors are gonna pass. Â*The #'s thing was just unbelievable. Left a big black rubber mark on my hull I found later from tying up to me. Â*Should send him a bill. Did I say I was very frustrated?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What do you drive & did you have baffels in?

[titties and beer]

just talked to the boat store here in town ,mufflers are 550-750 $ wonderful http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (titties and beer @ July 08 2003, 2:06 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">o-ya he said the f-cop said you have to have 2-fire-ex if your motor is covered http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif and when you see a cop go slow and have all you paper Â*and safety stuff in order[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
2 fire extinguishers? I have never heard that? WTF!

[zahndok]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ratacole @ July 08 2003, 2:38 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What do you drive &
did you have baffels in?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

575SCI with intercooler and the oem Merc tips, internal flappers and external flaps. Â*Likely looking at Imco Gatlin tips to comply. He did ask to raise the hatch and check for cut out exhaust. That's illegal too.! Didn't say anything about two extinguishers but I have auto halon system

[MOWtown]

By the way, welcome to the party, zahndok. Usually, KevinMcd or Rude 235 do the welcoming to boost their post counts but their slipping.

[jkpruitt]

Send them a bill. By law, they must provide you with insurance information. It they indeed hurt the boat, let them fix it.

[Essex502]

The U.S. Coast Guard requires the following to be on board:

Less than 26' 1 B-1 Extinguisher
26' to less than 40' 2 B-1 Extinguisher

A fixed Halon system can be substituted for 1 of the extinguishers.

See this (http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fed_reqs/equ_fire.htm)

[kc0000]

I knew I need to buy something today at the boating store, another fire extinguisher.....

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MOWtown @ July 08 2003, 11:15 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By the way, welcome to the party, zahndok. Â*Usually, KevinMcd or Rude 235 do the welcoming to boost their post counts but their slipping.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Welcome to the boards, zahndok! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif One of the rules of a new member is to give us details and pics of the water sled! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ July 09 2003, 06:59 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The U.S. Coast Guard requires the following to be on board:

Less than 26' Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â* Â*1 B-1 Â*Extinguisher
26' to less than 40' Â* Â* Â*2 B-1 Â*Extinguisher

A fixed Halon system can be substituted for 1 of the extinguishers.

See this (http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fed_reqs/equ_fire.htm)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am only 25'-4"...so I guess I am ok with only 1 extinguisher. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 09 2003, 07:23 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I knew I need to buy something today at the boating store, another fire extinguisher.....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Didn't Nordic or you're sales guy tell you that 2 were required? Essex told me! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You don't have a Halon installed already? I would have thought you would knowing you're predilection towards neat gadgets! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kevnmcd]

I am not up on how loud 88 dba is. Does over this level only apply to the high hp motors? What about mine? Will I get hassled for mine (stock 502 w/thru hull and tips above water line)?

[TooMuchFun]

In my obsession to stay one step ahead of the cops, I purchased a decibel meter, calibrated it, and set it to the 'A' setting to begin testing.

Some examples from 3-4 feet away ... watching a big screen TV so loud (i.e., full blast) your ears cannot stand it is about 78-80 dBs.

A large block truck engine exhaust is in the 60 dB range.

Listening to the stereo in the truck so loud your ears are about to bleed gets you over the regulation limits, but just in the low 90 range.

Yelling as loud as I or my kids can really close to the meter gets it to the high 80 decibel range, but it is a challenge to make enough noise to go past the regulations.

I'm testing my Innovation Marine/Volvo 540 tall block 650hp with straight through exhaust on Friday .. . it has a similar sound as the Merc 575, or the newer Teague carbeurated 625s, just a bit lower in pitch.

I could be way off base here, but my sense is that the cops with the dB meters have not calibrated them and have not placed them on the correct setting (e.g., the 'C' range reads higher) for while I enjoy the sound of a big hand built engine, it is not as loud as what I have tested to try to get to over 86 dBs up close. Perhaps if you are standing about 10-20 feet away and open the engine up it violates the noise regs, but not at idle and surely not at idle from 50 feet away.

Will post some findings when I retuan from the water and testing my and other folks engines on Friday. Hoping to have a hard record of dBs for my engine to show the cops that meets regs and hoping to get stopped if I succeed at the former.

TooMuchFun

[kevnmcd]

TMF - Can't wait to see your numbers....post'em when you get them. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Essex502]

TMF -

What is the accuracy of the meter you bought? Most commercial sound meters I found were +/- 1.5 to 2.0 dB. The following chart will give everyone an idea of the relative sound levels:

(From a website)
Just Audible 10 Â* Heartbeat
Very Quiet 20-30 Whisper
Quiet 40 Â* Average home
Moderate 50 Â* Light traffic
Moderately Loud 60 Â* Normal conversation
70 Â* Vacuum cleaner
Loud 80 Â* Heavy traffic or telephone ringing
90 Â* Pneumatic drill
Very Loud 100 Â* Power mower
Uncomfortably Loud 120 Â* Boom box in car
140 Â* Jet plane 30 meters overhead
Damaging 150+ Saturn V rocket at ground zero Â*

(From another website)
Threshold of hearing (0dB)
Rustling leaves (20dB)
Soft whisper, three feet (30dB)
Normal conversation (55-60dB)
Car passing, 15 feet (70dB)
Vacuum cleaner; freeway traffic (80dB)
Gas-powered lawn mower (90dB)
Subway train, inside (95dB)
Snowmobile (100dB)
Chainsaw (110dB)
Rock concert (120dB)
Threshold of pain (120-130dB)
Airplane takeoff, 100 feet (130-150dB)
Firecracker (150dB)
Shotgun (170dB)

So you see that 90dB on the A scale is not that loud. Remember that the scale is LOGARITHMIC and every 3 dB increase in sound level doubles the perceived sound level for humans. However, most legislation in most states are saying 88 dBA which is somewhere between vacuum cleaner and chain saw or telephone ringing and pneumatic drill.

[kevnmcd]

I am screwed! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[TooMuchFun]

I'm comfortable that at idle most high performance engines are about 1/2 as loud as standing next to a pneumatic drill, getting under the 86-88 dB criterion ... or here's hoping ...

For Kevnmcd ... is Friday a good day for you to take a look at my trailer and give me a general price estimate on bunk replacement/repair? I'll be putting in at hemmenway about 9:00am and coming back sometime in the afternoon.

TooMuchFun

[TooMuchFun]

Losing my mind here ... last post was for MOWtown re: trailer bunk repair ...

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

One thought...if the new test (SAE J 2005) is truly 3 feet away at idle AND your exhaust exits UNDER your swimstep (under water) then there seems to be a good likelihood that you'll pass the test. The shoreline driveby test I don't know...if you're up on plane and your exhaust if out of the water then there's a distinct possibility of not passing. I can't determine what the test says as the SAE charges for a copy. How is that possible if it goes into law? It should be FREE for those that must abide by it. "Free"dom of information act, maybe?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ July 09 2003, 12:18 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Losing my mind here ... last post was for MOWtown re: trailer bunk repair ...

TooMuchFun[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Don't worry...I was just about to correct you. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kc0000]

Mufflers for the boat are not cheap, I'm assuming that the exhaust exiting under the swim step is fine on my boat. More than happy to comply with changes in the rules if it keeps the coppers away.

It might be in our best interest to conduct some research on how well the mufflers actually work...

Where did the decibel meter come from? What brand?

KC

[Essex502]

I thnk TMF bought his at Radio Shack. I did a little research yesterday and industrial quality sound meters from Extech are abot $100 to $500.

See This (http://www.extech.com/)

The trouble is...if we can't get our hands on the SAE J2005 (static) and J1970 (driveby) procedures, then our testing won't amount to much. The SCMA on their website www.scma.com has proposed a new set of standard for AB1555 (pending legislation in CA) that would phase in the sound levels. Other states have other levels but the two SAE tests list above are the most prevalent.

[Essex502]

BTW - Extech is available through Grainger, McMaster Carr, Fry Electronics, Cole-Parmer and many other sources. Seem to be quite well distributed.

The model 407736-NIST with +/- 1.5dB accuracy with NIST certification is around $350 online.

[kc0000]

This is good stuff:

cpperformance_silencer_results (http://www.cpperformance.com/products/Exhaust/024.asp)

[kc0000]

best performer is also the cheapest solution:

drop_in_silencer (http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=410-284401)

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 09 2003, 3:21 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">best performer is also the cheapest solution:

drop_in_silencer (http://www.cpperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=410-284401)[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I talked to Mike at Rex Marine about these. They are a cheap solution, but they also rob some hp. He said that you may lose 100-200 rpm's at WOT. Not much....but it is still a loss.

[TooMuchFun]

I'm starting with the Radio Shack cheapie ... digital one was $60.00+ with batteries. I thought I would start there as the guys at Imco Marine (294-3030) bought one that matched what they saw the law using on the lake ...

I agree that testing procedures remain vague based on what I can find. My brother is a Marine surveyor in CA and the best he can tell from reading current regs is 4 feet out and 3 feet up from the transom at idle (or something close to that); and 50 feet from when you are running. RadioShack equip. + guestimating procedures is pretty inexact at best, but might give me a sense of either I'm way over the limits or close enough to pursue in a more exact way and test the cops as I get stopped.

Outside of the appeal of the quality engineering and performance of the engine I run, 1/2 of me bought it for how it sounds http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif and I do not want to give this up!

RadioShack is not exactly quality, but I'm having difficulty spending a large portion of what I might spend for silencers just to perform some tests ... once I test a bit later this week I'll probably return the unit for a refund.

Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I still can't conceive of being in noncompliance with the noise rulings at idle for my kids were yelling at me to turn the truck stereo down before I got to an 88 dB read with the meter right on one of the speakers and I could barely hear them from the seat next to me; and they love to go to head banging levels.

If I bite the silencer bullet at some point, a friend of mine runs a set of Hydro Power silencers (866 843-1900 / hpisilencers.com) that he is pleased with. No chambers or baffles to cut hp up to 700hp engines, but are permanent unlike the baffle type (e.g., Drew Marine) that can be electronically hooked into your dash to open and close (and at this point I am not willing to put something on the boat that muffles sound ALL the time). Either option seems to cost well over $6-700 with install which I am not yet ready to fork over. On the Hydro Power option, he can't tell the difference in performance at WOT ...

TooMuchFun

[Fireman2]

I was out yesterday and ran into one of the "cool rangers", I cruised up to him and asked about the DB limitations and the NPS citations given for it during the weekend. He told me that during the big weekend they were out in full force with over three times the officers as usual. He also said he wouldn't check db levels on a normal weekend. They were point blank just being ANAL on the 4th. I told him I was curious and didn't have my own DB tester and asked him if he could Â*"just for the hell of it." Â*Well from 1 foot away from my exhaust, it registered a whoopping 96. Thats with a 496 Mag HO with above water through hull exhaust. Shit Damn it!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have never had a problem at havasu. Looks like I'm makin the extra drive for now on.. F#@k Mead....and its "Picnic Police."

[kc0000]

Thanks for the link to hpisilencers.com, they might be getting a call from me after the Lake Powell trip.

[kevnmcd]

I got some quotes from HP Silencers....I can't remember exactly cuz the email is at work right now, but from what I remember it was about $1100 for the inline silencers. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif Expensive, but there is no hp loss using them. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[TooMuchFun]

Depressing reading from Fireman2. I upgraded my Volvo 420 (about the same as the 496 HO) to the engine I have now and the new one is WAY louder ... guess I'm fooling myself. Not looking forward to dropping the $1000+ to silence the engine and keep the hp.

I knew there was a reason I don't hang out at Sandy Cove and the populated spots on holiday weekends ... don't need to meet up with rangers when they turn into Mr. Hyde.

TooMuchFun

[Ratacole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Fireman2 @ July 09 2003, 8:02 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have never had a problem at havasu. Looks like I'm makin the extra drive for now on.. F#@k Mead....and its "Picnic Police."[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Fuck Mead is right.

[Essex502]

This month's issue of Powerboat Magazine (got it last night) has a good editorial about the proposed "national" coalition and the NMMA NOT being tough enough and fighting for reasonable limits.

There also seems to be a very nebulous test procedure that doesn't specify which direction from the sound source (exhaust) to place the meter. The proposed stationary test standard (SAE J005) is 1.5 meter (roughly 5'http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif but the direction is not. So theoretically the 5' could be inside the boat cockpit, under water, straight up or straight back from the exhaust tip. Those boats with underwater exhaust have a better chance than those having exhaust above the waterline on this test. The proposed shoreline test (SAE 1970) probably doesn't specify speed or rpm so, again, less than exact test routine which can give different results. Calibration and training will also factor into the testing. The accuracy of the meters will make borderline results dubious. If you get stopped and the trooper says: "The meter says you are 89 (with an 88 limit) so I am writing you up." - well the better meters ($300 - $500 certified accurate) are only accurate to +/- 1.5 dB at best. So your REAL meter reading might be as be as low as 87.5 dB which whould make you legal.

To sum it all up...we probably need to resign ourselves to some type of muffler in the future but what form it will take - and cost - have yet to be determined. The tree-hugging environmental pukes have much more clout than performance boaters. They are well organized and well funded. From the Powerboat editorial it seems our marine manufacturers are not.

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ July 09 2003, 9:13 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I got some quotes from HP Silencers....I can't remember exactly cuz the email is at work right now, but from what I remember it was about $1100 for the inline silencers. Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif Â*Expensive, but there is no hp loss using them. Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Oops....these silencers are only $650/pair. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif

[Essex502]

Kevin - buy some, put 'em in and let us know what you think. Then we can decide if we also want ot do it! It would be interesting to get a sound meter before and after the silencers!

[Essex502]

TMF - what brand is your sound meter?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ July 10 2003, 08:57 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Kevin - buy some, put 'em in and let us know what you think. Then we can decide if we also want ot do it! It would be interesting to get a sound meter before and after the silencers![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I was hoping someone else would be the ginepig. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kc0000]

HPI Silencers transom Mount are $920 for the pair, they are 10 inches long from the transom to the end of the tip.

My concern is my swim steps.... At 10 inches the tip might be underwater on the Nordic, and it might be in the way of the retractable swim steps.... dollars, dollars, dollars

The internal ones are 8 inches long but I do not see any way that they would fit on the stock setup, I'm going to send pictures of the Nordic to HPI tonight.

Possibly more than a stock motor needs.... at $99 those Hardin Marine Slip Ins are looking more and more reasonable...

[Fireman2]

The best choice is to have the "Silent Choice" installed. Then you can Haul ass around and sound normal, and if you get pulled over by the "Picnic Police" just flip the switch and walla instant quiet pussy sounding boat.

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 10 2003, 09:43 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HPI Silencers transom Mount are $920 for the pair, they are 10 inches long from the transom to the end of the tip.

My concern is my swim steps.... Â* At 10 inches the tip might be underwater on the Nordic, and it might be in the way of the retractable swim steps.... Â* Â* dollars, dollars, dollars

The internal ones are 8 inches long but I do not see any way that they would fit on the stock setup, I'm going to send pictures of the Nordic to HPI tonight.

Possibly more than a stock motor needs.... Â*at $99 those Hardin Marine Slip Ins are looking more and more reasonable...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
KC - I just spoke with GGB (http://www.ggb.ca.)...there inline silencers run $749 a pair. They are all polished stainless steel, reduce exhaust from 12-15 db and there is no loss in hp. They are also made to fit in the stock Mercruiser application.

I thought the inline ones from HP Silencers were the same....and only $650 a pair? http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

The draw back from using the slip in ones is a reduction in hp and they may not work with the flappers in the tips (you may have to purchase new tips from them as well? )

Just my .02

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Fireman2 @ July 10 2003, 09:48 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The best choice is to have the "Silent Choice" installed. Then you can Haul ass around and sound normal, and if you get pulled over by the "Picnic Police" Â*just flip the switch and walla instant quiet pussy sounding boat.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
From what I have read....they will not allow those and make you open the hatch to make sure you don't have them. The only way those would be legal is if you have silencers on the thru-hull portion. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[kc0000]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ July 10 2003, 09:53 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">HPI Silencers transom Mount are $920 for the pair, they are 10 inches long from the transom to the end of the tip.

My concern is my swim steps.... Â* At 10 inches the tip might be underwater on the Nordic, and it might be in the way of the retractable swim steps.... Â* Â* dollars, dollars, dollars

The internal ones are 8 inches long but I do not see any way that they would fit on the stock setup, I'm going to send pictures of the Nordic to HPI tonight.

Possibly more than a stock motor needs.... Â*at $99 those Hardin Marine Slip Ins are looking more and more reasonable...<span id='postcolor'>
KC - I just spoke with GGB (http://www.ggb.ca.)...there inline silencers run $749 a pair. Â*They are all polished stainless steel, reduce exhaust from 12-15 db and there is no loss in hp. Â*They are also made to fit in the stock Mercruiser application.

I thought the inline ones from HP Silencers were the same....and only $650 a pair? Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

The draw back from using the slip in ones is a reduction in hp and they may not work with the flappers in the tips (you may have to purchase new tips from them as well? )

Just my .02[/quote]
HPI are $920 per pair for the Transom Mount
HPI are $650 per pair for the In Line

[kc0000]

Nordic says that I have nothing to worry about on the 28, at least at idle it is pretty tame - on a 35 it is a different story. They also said that because of the transom angle the only in lines that would fit are Corsa.

Sent an email to HPI and invited them to the board and discussion, also asked for pricing and dimmensions for the HPI In Lines.

[MOWtown]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Fireman2 @ July 10 2003, 09:48 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The best choice is to have the "Silent Choice" installed. Then you can Haul ass around and sound normal, and if you get pulled over by the "Picnic Police" Â*just flip the switch and walla instant quiet pussy sounding boat.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
In Minnesota and other states, silent choice is ILLEGAL. You can bet that, if they're starting to bust us on db's for good here, that eventually they'll make Silent Choice illegal here too. Then there's more money down the drain...

[TooMuchFun]

For Essex502 -- dB meter is the RadioShack digital model. Runs about $60.00 and has an accuracy to about 2 dB +/-. Will probably return it once I experiment a few times this week on the lake. The Imco Marine mechanics said they saw some of the rangers using the same model.

After talking with some vendors, I'm finding that the HPI silencers are technologically sound but pricey -- over $1,000 for a pair. They are also not switchable, so the up side is that they do not impede hp but the down side is you lose your engine sound permanently.

Eddie Marine makes a good system ... electronically switchable from the dash and they replace the existing 4" or 4 1/2" tips in the transom. They also include some nice safety features in the electronics related to grounding and protecting from the heat generation at the header/riser connects. Cost is $695 for the pair which includes internal flaps and for an extra $50 bucks external flaps. They're stipulating that they will cut 12-15 dBs throughout the range of operation (so even if they only cut 10 the product is probably adequate for most applications). Down side is that it cuts some hp from idle to 3000 rpms; and after 3000 rpms they cannot handle the flow for muffling purposes if your engine is a 496 HO or above (which means if you are beered up and forget to turn them off when you go WOT you may burn them up and be looking at another $695 bucks + install). Up side is that they are switchable so that you can turn them off for no hp or sound loss at any range.

Apparently you would be looking at additional charges on these apps if your tips are not genuinely straight through but are cut at an angle through the transom ... this would require a riser between header and tip to straighten prior to the transom cutout ... another significant cost.

Neither option seems very appealing at present, but the Eddie Marine product would allow you to slow down and turn on the silencers when near the cops on busy weekends; and then run without using them most of the time.

TooMuchFun

[Red Horse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MOWtown @ July 10 2003, 11:13 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">]
In Minnesota and other states, silent choice is ILLEGAL. Â*You can bet that, if they're starting to bust us on db's for good here, that eventually they'll make Silent Choice illegal here too. Â*Then there's more money down the drain...[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I wonder if Mercruiser is putting any money towards the fight??? It would be in their best interest http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[kc0000]

HPI are $1000+ per pair for Clamp On
HPI are $920 per pair for the Transom Mount
HPI are $650 per pair for the In Line brushed finish, $700 polished

In Line dimensions...
the can is 5.5 in diameter and 6 inches in length, the inner tube that the nitrite hoses connect to is 12 inches in length and can be shortened to as short as 9 inches...

I'm going to measure my boat tonight. Â*Nordic says that Corsa In Line will fit on my boat and it looks like HPI are close to the same size as Corsa. Â*HPI can go up to 1500hp with no loss of performance, so no worries if I add a super charger over the winter!!!!

Teague is now buying from HPI.

KC

[Essex502]

From the new Powerboat editorial it appears that the NMMA (National Marine Manufacturers Association) has been remarkably silent on this issue. The SCMA website is stating that the SoCal boys are at least proposing changes in AB1555 which is designed to regulate sound levels of watercraft used in CA lakes.

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder if Mercruiser is putting any money towards the fight??? It would be in their best interest Â*[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I would hope so, if CA is coming up with new restrictions then It's only a matter of time before other states follow http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Hydro Power]

How's it going out on the west cost? This is Dan from Hydro Power.
I see that you guys are having some problems with db limits. We have been going through this for the past three years on the east cost. To let you know a little about us we make a silencing system that has 0 horsepower loss with a great deal of db reduction. Several boat manufactures use our products on the east cost like Cig, Sonic, Outerlimits, Powerplay, just to name a few. I also saw that you have been talking to my competitor in Canada (GGB). They make a great system, but they use a Steel Wool packing in there mufflers. In time that has to be repacked and they charge around $300 to do this. Our system doesn't have any mechanical parts to break or any steel wool packing to come a part. We can help you. By the way I have talked with Greg we are setting up to become a sponsor for this site.

[Essex502]

Hydro...assuming we all will have to deal with this...can we discuss volume discounting iff'en we get a group buy together?

[BADFISH II]

This just in (from my big chair) Â*HPI is now a proud LVHB sponsor! Â*You want discounts? Â*I get em for you (thanks Dan)! Â*Always looking out for my buds. Â*More details to come very very soon!!

From what I'm told, HPI is not the cheapest, but the best. Â*Their mufflers achieve NO LOSS of HP!

Let's get a group order together to get the best benefit in pricing. Â*I can't guarantee how much the discount will be, but I know Dan with HPI will take care of us LVHB'ers!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ July 10 2003, 3:20 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hydro...assuming we all will have to deal with this...can we discuss volume discounting iff'en we get a group buy together?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Exactly what I was thinking, E502.

HP - Glad to have you here. What kind of warranty do you offer on your product? Will your product reduce the db enough to be under the legal limit?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lakemead1 @ July 10 2003, 3:33 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This just in (from my big chair) Â*HPI is now a proud LVHB sponsor! Â*You want discounts? Â*I get em for you (thanks Dan)! Â*Always looking out for my buds. Â*More details to come very very soon!!

From what I'm told, HPI is not the cheapest, but the best. Â*Their mufflers achieve NO LOSS of HP!

Let's get a group order together to get the best benefit in pricing. Â*I can't guarantee how much the discount will be, but I know Dan with HPI will take care of us LVHB'ers![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am in!

[BADFISH II]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Will your product reduce the db enough to be under the legal limit?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Depends on if your referring to your exhaust or your pie hole


http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lakemead1 @ July 10 2003, 3:37 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Depends on if your referring to your exhaust or your pie hole[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is enough out of your pie hole, Mr. Boatless! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[BADFISH II]

only this season http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kevnmcd]

But your still "boatless" right now! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[BADFISH II]

you really know how to hit below the belt don't ya KMcD http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[beer hunter]

Defiantly boatless, but he does have a cool site http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Hydro Power]

I have to make this quick because it is well past closing time and I have to go home. I will give a 10% discount and if you get a group of 5 or more I will give you a better deal. We do have a one year warranty on our products.

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hydro Power @ July 10 2003, 3:52 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I have to make this quick because it is well past closing time and I have to go home. Â*I will give a 10% discount and if you get a group of 5 or more I will give you a better deal. Â*We do have a one year warranty on our products.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I am in....anyone else?

[BADFISH II]

Dan, can you make mouth baffles for Kevin?


http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[kc0000]

I'm in! Measuring the motor tonight.

I'm glad I called Dan earlier today and invited him to the site, though I did spell it wrong in the email I sent..... My intent was to collect information so that people can make an informed decision, a discount is a bonus!

If the measurements look good then I'm going to order the In Line in the morning and install them on the boat for Lake Powell. I love the sound of my ride, but I would like it to be quieter without a loss of power, my hearing is bad enough from years of riding dirt bike when I was a kid.

Hey Kev, you got your tool biatch lined up, maybe you can send him to Havasu next Friday to help me with the install!!!

[BADFISH II]

Thanks KC! You also picked us up a sponsor for the group and a discount! Awesome!

[kc0000]

Measured my boat and it does not look like the In Line would work for me, the nitite hose on the bottom is only six inches long. Looks like my only option is the internal baffles.

bummer....

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lakemead1 @ July 10 2003, 4:09 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dan, can you make mouth baffles for Kevin?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Dan, can you make silencers for LM1, so when he is pushing his plastic boat around in the bathtub and making those motor boat noises he won't wake up the twins! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[STV_Keith]

5 ft behind my motor, it read 105db while running it on the trailer. Obviously, it's quieter than that in the water, but that's a stock setup and there is no way to quiet it down.

Now, I heard about a guy getting checked in Havasu, and the cop said he just wanted to see as the limit wasn't in effect yet. The reading was supposed to be less than 90db at 35ft straight back a water level. Maybe it's different in NV.

[kc0000]

Add silencers is not any easy equation.......

Took another look at the Nordic this morning... I have nitrite hose in three places:
- Header to upper elbow with 6" nitrite
- upper elbow to lower elbow with 8" of nitrite
- lower elbow to stern exhaust tip with 6" of nitrite

The first two sections of nitrite are not long enought to support an In Line silencer, and they are so close to motor components that they can not be shortened or expanded.

Looked inside of my exhaust tips and found one of my internal flappers missing. Two months ago a friend of mine stated that the boat sounded different and asked me what I had done - nothing to my knowledge, well now I know. Since it has been running that long without the flapper, any damage from water reversion has been done....

On the stern, the stock exhaust tips have the Salsbury flappers on the end of the tips. Based upon the gook on the stern it looks like my tips are usually 30% in the water with full fuel tanks. Also the mechanical aspects of my swim steps are a good six inches from the stern.

For silencing the Nordic my options are probably very limited...

So I'll be the ginnie pig, I'm on the phone with CP Performance ordering the Hardin Marine $99 internal silencer. Potential loss of top end power and the motor could easily blow those silencers out of the exhaust tips - unless I modify the baffle with my dremmel.

I would like to do the HPI Transom mounts, but at a length of 10" the tips would be underwater at idle - not good.

Should have them installed for Lake Powell.

[kevnmcd]

Good luck....ginnie pig! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Â*I will check those out at Powell. Â*They say that you will only lose 100-200 rpm at WOT. Â*Not too much, but still a loss. Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[titties and beer]

kc let me know how they work,i know i'm going to get a ticket .i have a 500hp with headers, my boat shop told me 550 to 750$,its not that loud just set'n but running wfo it is http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif have fun at powell http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[TooMuchFun]

Out on the lake all day today playing with a dB meter. What I found and all depressing in relation to meeting noise limits, and similar to other info. posts:

Tested a few 496 HOs at idle and all were about 94-96 dBs 5 feet up or back from the transom. Exhaust tips partially under H2O or transom configuration and swim steps did not seem to matter.

Tested my Innovation Marine/Volvo 650 and found 98 dBs (+/- 2 depending where you held the meter) 5 feet from the transom; from the drivers seat at 3000 rpm and moving about 45 mph about 100 dBs and at WOT running over 5000 rpms from 108-115 dBs from the drivers seat. From approx. 50 feet from shore (and probably further as I did not want to run into any rocks) and running at a 4000 rpm cruise and 55-60 mph registered approx. 90 dBs +/- 4 and not a very accurate test to say the least.

Tested a 350 small block on a genuine hot boat without water jacketed exhaust and WAY louder than my rig at idle.

Bottom line is that I might sneak under the <90 dBs 35 feet from the transom at idle, but for all other tests and particularly when running in the upper rpm range it appears clear that any performance boat with a 496 HO or larger and straight through exhausts will fail by alot.

I'm considering an HPI product purchase at this point, but need more info. on how many dBs they really cut (for a minimum of 10-12 is necessary), and if the product really does not interfere with hp production. Any data on this front is appreciated ...

TooMuchFun

[kevnmcd]

TMF - HP Silencers will reduce the db level by 12-15 with NO hp loss. HP is offering a 10% discount to us on LVHB, but if we get an order of 5...we can get more of a discount. With you and me that is 2...anyone else?

[TooMuchFun]

Kevnmcd ... I'm inclined to be in on the HP purchase. Will probably have Shane at Offshore here in Vegas do the install. Just need to talk with HP and Offshore on which type is recommended for my application. When I take 10-12 folks out for a day of family cruising with little ones and a bit of skiing and tubing, my wife is actually pushing me to spend the money on a boat toy to get the noise down http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.

I'm also for waiting til we get 5 or more follks to buy to save on the $$$$s. Keep me posted ...

TooMuchFun

[beer hunter]

Will these things actually get us under the new limits or will I be spending more money down the road? I will grudgingly pay but don't what to do it twice http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm also for waiting til we get 5 or more follks to buy to save on the $$$$s. Keep me posted ...

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'm on the fence right now , but will probably go the same route http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif The boat is of little use to me if I'm getting tickets every time I go out or am limited to only a few places to use it http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kc0000]

I'm definatly going to do something... this weekend we backed our way to shore next to EsSex502 and he said definatly got to get the 496HO quieter, pretty load when directly behind it. After looking over his exhaust set-up, completely below the water line, I'm more comfortable placing the 10" HPI on the transom. They will fit but the tips will be in the water.

KC

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 13 2003, 9:04 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They will fit but the tips will be in the water.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Even quieter! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kc0000]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ July 13 2003, 9:58 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 13 2003, 9:04 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They will fit but the tips will be in the water.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Even quieter! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I know, blowing bubbles! I don't think I'll have time on Friday to do the exhaust, pack the boat, pack the truck and take a nap.... well maybe if I take a short nap....

I'm in for the HPI Transom Mounts, waiting to buy until we have five.

[kevnmcd]

Come on guys....we have me, TMF, and KC....anyone else? Beer Hunter? Fireman?

[Essex502]

I can't jump into the pile for "quiet-ners" [sic] since I think we'll pass the new test at idle. Maybe. Probably. Gotta get a meter and test it, dammit!

[kc0000]

Mike you won't have any problem....

[jrgaudettes]

Dont need them my exhaust is below the water and my little small block wont make that much noise... http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 14 2003, 10:24 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mike you won't have any problem....[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That's what I think.

[ex cracker]

Until I get nailed my boat is going to stay loud. F*#k em!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (moneypit @ July 14 2003, 12:10 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Until I get nailed my boat is going to stay loud. F*#k em![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Go get'um MP! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[titties and beer]

SAME HERE come and get me ASSHOLES, , THIS MIGHT COME BACK AND BITE ME ON THE ASS http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif sorry i'm a little pissed i had to work till 6:17 to night-never- never have i did this,i had to fix someone's(the builder ) f##k-up it cost him big time http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif

[Red Horse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (moneypit @ July 14 2003, 12:10 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Until I get nailed my boat is going to stay loud. F*#k em![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Hell yeah. I aint working for the man!!!!



Come get me copper http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/glare.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/stare.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/insane.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif






In August I will get busted. Oh well http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Horse @ July 14 2003, 8:43 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In August I will get busted. Oh well http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why in August? What is going on? Come on spill the beans! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Red Horse]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kevnmcd @ July 14 2003, 9:37 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Horse @ July 14 2003, 8:43 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In August I will get busted. Oh well http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ohboy.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Why in August? Â*What is going on? Â*Come on spill the beans! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Just because after you run your mouth, something happens to you.



You know, "There are never any cops on this road. That is why I do 90+."



Yes sir, Judge. I do need to slow down and grow up.







Yeah right. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[TooMuchFun]

For those contemplating HPI silencers, I received specs from the Mercury performance labs comparing HP Base and the HP with HPI silencers on a 525 EFI engine on a dyno test with no load.

From 2400 to 4000 rpms you lose between 10-20 hp. Equal below to idle and above to WOT.

Could be a greater loss with load.

They apparently rate at 12-15 dBs in genuine noise reduction across the power curve, but you will lose some nominal hp.

TooMuch Fun

[kc0000]

TooMuchFun, Thanks for the information! A few percentage points. That is the kind of stuff we need. Now if we could only kind like comparisons conducted on the same motor in the same conditions - not likely.

[Hydro Power]

TOO MUCH FUN

IF YOU COULD GIVE ME A CALL I AM WONDERING HOW YOU GOT THAT INFO.

1-866-843-1900
DAN

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Hydro Power @ July 16 2003, 06:32 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">TOO MUCH FUN

IF YOU COULD GIVE ME A CALL I AM WONDERING HOW YOU GOT THAT INFO. Â*

1-866-843-1900
DAN[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Dan - Can you talk about that? I was under the impression that there was NO power loss with the HPI silencers.

[beer hunter]

I think we all need to lobby Hot Boat and Powerboat magazines to do a "Silencer Shootout" on say a 496HO and maybe one or two other engines Â* http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Those kinds of comparisons would be a big help for us all http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (beer hunter @ July 16 2003, 07:32 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I think we all need to lobby Hot Boat and Powerboat magazines to do a "Silencer Shootout" on say a 496HO and maybe one or two other engines Â* http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Those kinds of comparisons would be a big help for us all http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
BH - That is a great idea! and add the 502 to that list.

P.S. Dan...I will offer my boat up for some testing! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[beer hunter]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">P.S. Dan...I will offer my boat up for some testing!

[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
And it will come back with six or eight exhaust holes in the transom http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif /jk

[ex cracker]

A friend of mine got a noise ticket last summer at Mead and the fine was thirty dollars at the Henderson court house. He paid the fine and wasn't required to show he made his boat quieter. Still has the same exhaust.

[TooMuchFun]

Good info ... I'm inclined to pay a few $30 fines before I drop $1200 +/- on silencers that I really do not want but may be coerced legally to obtain at some point.

For Hydro Power (HPI), the specs come from a Mercury High Performance Test Plant on the east coast and match a graph plotting hp on the vertical axis and rpms on the horizontal axis that HPI sends out with intro. lit. Dyno test with no load on the Merc 525 EFI. Midrange loses nominal hp (5-20), but idle to plane and 4000 rpms to WOT there seems to be no difference.

Under load this could change nominally ... what we really need that has been suggested in this thread is comparables under the same H2O conditions with and without the silencer install.

TooMuchFun

[Essex502]

A couple of thoughts...

1) Some of the proposed legislation states that the fines are ESCALATING is that the $ amount goes up with subsequent convictions.

2) Either HotBoat or Powerboat DID do a comparo on silencers/mufflers a while back though I don't remember the exact issue. I'll try to check tonight when I get home (assuming this tired old mind remembers) and let you guys know.

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (TooMuchFun @ July 16 2003, 11:44 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Good info ... I'm inclined to pay a few $30 fines before I drop $1200 +/- on silencers that I really do not want but may be coerced legally to obtain at some point.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
TMF - I agree with you, however....if you leave your exhaust as is, it just gives the cops a reason to board you. And I, like most others here on the boards, like to enjoy a few cold ones throughout the day and would hate to take a chance of having to go through an OUI inspection! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif Don't get me wrong, I don't drive after TOO many, but I just don't want to give them any reason to suspect anything. Just my .02

[kc0000]

I concurr....

The regulations exhist and I prefer to be in compliance as best I can, so as to not give them a reason to come aboard. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Also I'd like to be able to carry on a conversation between the boat and a person standing on the dock. Â*My hearing is impared and some times that leads others to think I'm not listening - listening, just can not always hear when there is a dull roar around me.

I'm hoping that the Hardine Marine slip-ins are waiting on the door step for me, if so then pictures later tonight and install on Friday while I'm in Havasu.

As far as performance, early this morning I read a few articles regarding the new Mercruiser five blade performance props..... Â* their marketing focus brought a "duh" into the brain.... Â* Most of us do not run our boats at WOT all day long like a racing boat. Â*If you use your boat for recreational performance, maybe performance enhancements and concerns should be focussed upon acceleration out of the hole and through the mid range - not the top speed.

Ok, don't cut my head off, I'm not trying to start one of those categorizing threads like "hot" or "performance".....

Simply think about how you drive your ride.... Â*Within the RPM range, where is most of your time spent...

[Essex502]

Looked it up last night...

Powerboat did a review of silencers/mufflers in their April, 2002 issue. Review covered the following manufacturers: Corsa, CMI, Drew Marine, Gaffrig Performance, Imco, Livorsi Marine, Rex Marine and Teague. I was wrong in that no testing was done but the article does list the various models and the manufacturer's claims for sound reduction and the available models with horsepower loss if applicable. Contact info was also listed.

The article also listed each state's noise standard and some state's testing procedure(s) as of that time:

Applicable:

Nevada 86 dB(A) - no test standard listed
California 86 dB(A) pre-1/76; 84 dB(A) pre-1/78; 82 dB(A) post 1/78 - no test std. listed
Arizona 86 dB(A) SAE J1970

The California standard is in the process of being revised at the moment as House bill AB1555 (Nakano) and promoted by the Bluewater Network (f&cking tree huggers) and will include the static SAE J2005 standard along with the J1970 shoreline test.

The SAE J2005 is a static test with the noise meter positioned 1.5 meters from the exhaust exit. The SAE J1970 is a shoreline test. With the SAE J2005 in CA there is a proposed limitation of 90 dB(A) for boats manufactured before 1/93 and 88 dB(A) for boats manufactured after 1/93. The proposed bill will include a shoreline test SAE J1970 and have a limit of 75 dB(A) at some distance from shoreline to the boat.

[kc0000]

Anyone with a 496HO is toast.... CP Performance did not deliver the Hardine Marine slip is, they better be there today!!

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 17 2003, 08:12 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone with a 496HO is toast.... Â*CP Performance did not deliver the Hardine Marine slip is, they better be there today!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Did you pay extra for 2 day delivery? If not, maybe you should have! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[kc0000]

maybe should have.....

[Essex502]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 17 2003, 08:12 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone with a 496HO is toast.... Â*CP Performance did not deliver the Hardine Marine slip is, they better be there today!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'd be willing to bet the 496HO would be close if it was under water like the Sterling is set up.

[kc0000]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 17 2003, 08:12 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone with a 496HO is toast.... Â*CP Performance did not deliver the Hardine Marine slip is, they better be there today!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
they are here, simple design, could be very restrictive....

I'll take some pictures tonight and post if I have enough time before launching towards LAKE POWELL!!!!

"nurse, dremel please"

Some form of these will be in the exhaust on Friday afternoon, none of us have a db meter, maybe a trip to Radio Shack can cure that, it would be nice to get a reading on the 496HO before I attack the silencers with a dremel...

area of circle = 3.14*radius*radius

Is that right?

I want to figure out how restrictive this puppy is....

[kc0000]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ July 17 2003, 11:27 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 17 2003, 08:12 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone with a 496HO is toast.... Â*CP Performance did not deliver the Hardine Marine slip is, they better be there today!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I'd be willing to bet the 496HO would be close if it was under water like the Sterling is set up.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
well you heard mine, no way is it as quiet as the regulations posted.... what is the NPS decibal levels?

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (kc0000 @ July 17 2003, 1:30 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">area of circle = 3.14*radius*radius

Is that right?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Yes...

Circumference = 3.14*D (D=Diameter)
Area = 3.14*r*r (r=radius)

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Essex502]

NO... the area of a circlular section is PI*r² !! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[kc0000]

blah, blah, blah, blah, PI*R (macintosh keyboard user) , blah, blah, blah, blah,

or is that a Lisa...

[kevnmcd]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Essex502 @ July 17 2003, 2:32 pm)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">NO... the area of a circlular section is Â*PI*r² !! Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
That is what I said in PC typing! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Essex502]

I doubt you have a Lisa...the Mac is a decendent of the original Lisa. She got knocked up by a Wang and ended up having a Mac.

[Red Horse]

Just remember that two pie are square http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Essex502]

RH...I like round pies myself! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Is a "two pie" like a "cow pie"?

[TooMuchFun]

For those of you considering purchasing some type of muffler or silencer system two points of info. for what it is worth:

1. I'm hearing some really negative things about HPI from other vendors ... Better Business Bureau challenges, credit altercations with Powerboat Magazine re: advertising, and etc. All second hand so take accordingly, but typically vendors do not speak out against another like this. I'm going to need first hand info. from multiple purchasers before I take the plunge with HPI product at >$1000.

2. Eddie Marine sells a pair of permanent high performance mufflers that I have inspected first hand on a Merc. 500. They cut dBs by about 5-6 units with no hp loss. Sell for $280.00 a pair, either as clamp on or tip replacement. They stick out about 8 inches as a replacement, but are too long for attachment (about 12 inches additional).

TooMuchFun

[kc0000]

HPI is probably not an option for me because of the length, 10 inches, swim steps in the way and would have to be remounted. Â* The Nordic 28 has S-Pipes so inlines will not fit.

Before the Lake Powell trip I ordered the inexpensive Hardin Marine Silencer Inserts, but my tips are not long enough for the install due to the internal flappers. Â*I'll post pictures later tonight. Â*I can see how they would work to reduce DB, pretty restrictive. Â*My concern is one of flow based upon the design, the design redirects the flow and truely needs an expansion chamber to help, no room for an expansion chamber inside of a four inch tip.

Just got off the phone with CPPerformance, I let them talk me into the Hardin Marine Cyclone Transom Mount. Â*These use the same design as the inserts, redirecting the sound with an expansion chamber as the silencer housing, includes internal flappers. Â*CP says they are rated to 500hp with no loss.... Â* Â*$539 plus shipping. Â* I'll post pictures once they are delivered.

One of my exhaust tips is toast, the flapper blew out months ago. So since I have to take everything apart to warranty the tips, I'm researching the costs of adding silencers - might as well do it all at once.

[TooMuchFun]

Was out all day Sunday on Mead ... lots of heavy performance boat traffic and many louder than me which is above 96dBs on the transom and a good 10-15dBs louder than supposed limits on a drive by.

One of the Park Ranger boats followed right behind me out of the new Lake Mead launch (nicely redone to accommodate large boats by the way) and I blew by another out by Sandy Cove at WOT with no incident, not even a look when I waived.

I'm rethinking spending money and time on silencers or muffler systems until things tighten up a bit more from a ticketing perspective. Seems all is being enforced very inconsistently and for other reasons at present, at least on Mead.

TooMuchFun

[kevnmcd]

None of us (KC, BH, and Me) got hassled once on Powell...and we were out there on the water for 7 days straight. Â*Go figure? Â*http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[ex cracker]

I was out the weekend before last and launched at Hemmingway/Vegas Bay in front of three patrols with no numbers,stickers (Lasers MSO wasn't informative enough for the D.O.W.) and the exhaust deal, shit I even had a beer and didn't get harassed??? Go Figure.

[Essex502]

MP - does your exhaust exit below the water line?

[Trouble Maker]

Has anyone installed a pair of HPI silencers yet? I hate to be the first one to take the plunge.....

http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[TooMuchFun]

See posts in Tech Tips on subject. I'm installing a set of Hardin Marine CPPerformance permanent silencer tips. Others have as well with good results.

My information on HPI after checking them out a bit through some engine builders is that the company is not reputable, they have gone bankrupt before and owe advertising dollars to some of the boating magazines, and their product does not actually do what they say (i.e., 10-15 dB reduction and no power loss).

I would recommend against being their guinea pig.

TooMuchFun

[LVjetboy]

Pure bullshit!

Stopped for custom numbers, then he uses that lame-ass excuse to hassle you and give you every test in the book? Sounds like Nazi bullshit tactics to me. Or a newbie cop with no clue on what counts, just a burning desire to be "the man" Why doesn't "Law enforcement" get a grip and use a little common sense?

I think we need to organize and fight these assholes and their stupid f*cking laws. It's one thing to stop someone who's a clear threat to the safety of other boaters based on their actions. Another thing to stop and harass boaters with no good reason other than CUSTOM NUMBERS!!! Why wasn't he out watching for stupid jet skiers risking other boaters safety instead of testing your exhaust?

No wonder people think f*ck law enforcement!

jer

[aquaholicbum]

sounds like somebody needs a nap!!! http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[aquaholicbum]

seriously tho. if the lawmen werent out there, pure hell would break out. everyboater out there needs to show them some respect no matter how much they think there just harrassing. if your a true boater you'll have all the required items in your boat and will be compliant with the rules and laws require of you. we all know about the noise law yet how many of you are actually showing an honest effort to comply? yeah its a stupid law with no housing on the lake , but if you were to take the time to ask other boaters about it alot of the family boater with kids on board cant stand the load boats. so maybe the rule has some merit not just to please a few. the issue about CUSTOM NUMBERS-- i dont remember reading where they are legal form of identification i read 3" block style numbers custom looks cool butt where does it say you can install them and if you do, expect jhonny law to have a reason to pull you over and ask. and while he can obviosly see you cant read the book he should check to see if you bothered to read the other rules that are spelled out in there. it's written to help ALL BOATERS and make all our days to the lake an enjoyable time so that we can all come back the next weekend. so bottem line is show respect to the boat patrol---its a thankless job butt ooh so neccasary!!

[REVOLVER38]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (aquaholicbum @ Oct. 20 2003, 08:44 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">seriously tho. if the lawmen werent out there, pure hell would break out. Â*everyboater out there needs to show them some respect no matter how much they think there just harrassing. if your a true boater you'll have all the required items in your boat and will be compliant with the rules and laws require of you. Â* we all know about the noise law yet how many of you are actually showing an honest effort to comply? yeah its a stupid law with no housing on the lake , but if you were to take the time to ask other boaters about it alot of the family boater with kids on board cant stand the load boats. so maybe the rule has some merit not just to please a few. the issue about CUSTOM NUMBERS-- i dont remember reading where they are legal form of identification Â*i read 3" block style numbers Â* Â*custom looks cool butt where does it say you can install them and if you do, expect jhonny law to have a reason Â* to pull you over and ask. and while he can obviosly see you cant read the book he should check to see if you bothered to read the other rules that are spelled out in there. it's written to help ALL BOATERS and Â*make all our days to the lake an enjoyable time so that we can all come back the next weekend. Â* Â* Â*so bottem line is Â* Â*show respect to the boat patrol---its a thankless job butt ooh so neccasary!![/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I can see you have strong feelins on this http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[aquaholicbum]

damn straight! i've seen way too avoidable accidents in person that are so avoidable only takes a few uneducated to ruin somebodys life forever. or themselves i'm not talking exhaust either guys i switched to the reason the boat patrol have to be out there. i can see the time when gun shots will echo on the lake. thank god the water patrol will be out and about. enough of that jeberish see you on the lake!

[Ratacole]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LVjetboy @ Oct. 20 2003, 02:34 am)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure bullshit! Â*

Stopped for custom numbers[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
What do they look like & how custom are they? I have them too but have never been yanked for it. (knock on wood).

Mike

[ctm23]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pure bullshit!

Stopped for custom numbers,[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Just a reason to stop the boat and check out the people on the boat. I have stopped a vehicle for no front plate and end up finding about a pound of methamphetamine.. They aren't always stopping you just for the numbers it's just a reason to contact you... Unfortunately some law enforcement officer have not learned that not everyone is an a$$hole and they treat people like dirt... They will learn after the 4th or 5th time they are called into the bosses office reference complaints.. just my .02.. http://www.lasvegashotboats.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[LVjetboy]

These new noise laws have nothing to do with safety on the lake. Neither do the intentions of groups pushing for new laws like Bluewater Network. If they have their way, they will ban your boat from the lake...then drain it because it's a dam...a monument to man's stupidity in their minds. What will you say then? It's not about the noise...or safety. Or poor families with children wanting to boat in peace. It's an agenda from groups like Bluewater to further restrict engine driven boats on lakes.

Are we all just a bunch of mindless sheep caving to their wishes?

Quote from Aquaholicbum: "Only takes a few uneducated to ruin somebodys life forever. or themselves i'm not talking exhaust either guys i switched to the reason the boat patrol have to be out there. i can see the time when gun shots will echo on the lake. thank god the water patrol will be out and about."

I have no problem with the law cruising the lake. I have a problem with the law enforcing stupid sh*t noise laws when they should be watching for that uneducated jet skier or boater who's clearly saftey threat.

jer

[TooMuchFun]

LVjetboy -- Agreed that there is a clear agenda out there against high performance engine powered vessels across the waterways of our country, however, to accomplish the agenda at some point legal arguments must be made and hold sway at state and federal levels ... and hold sway according to legal precedent. The only point to potentially stand on at present, and the one pushed by these groups federally, is the safety issue. Most high performance engines are within the guidelines of environmental protection for the next few years, and other legal points as well. Again, to prove a safety issue, the legal precedent becomes the cost of all boaters not in compliance placing devices on their vessels versus the aggregate cost of all personal and equipment damage due to noise. If the former outweighs the latter, than the precedent will not be argued (and henced enforced) successfully.

I, for one, am not a sheep or a lemming led to the proverbial slaughter, and have been watching the noise law advocacy as it moves through the state and federal legal system. While some states have gone ahead with the definition of noise ordinances and are beginning to enforce, the bottom line is one of, will the laws go into effect at a federal level? My information from military (Coast Guard) and DC government legal sources is no way in hell and they do not really want to touch it.

Therefore, I will boat in bliss with my loud engine and when it comes to severity of fine or potential boat impounding, I will in a cost effective and legal way fight and appeal until I get to a level where it will be thrown out.

Hope my perspective helps give you confidence that there are folks out there who are not going to simply bend over to special interest groups that are somewhat repugnant or wrongheaded in their zealous activities.

TooMuchFun

[LVjetboy]

TooMuchFun,

I'm no legal expert. Â*Just know these people are against more than high performance engines or loud exhaust as some think...or are misled by the spin. Â*

They are against the very reason for our passion. Â*Wake up people! Â*You think not? Â*Just follow their website, read their propaganda and understand their agenda. Â*They wish to drain the very lake you boat on! Â*If they succeed will you say oh well, it's law after all!!? Â*

To me that's sheep talking.

And it bugs the h*ll out of me when we as a group cow to their wishes and Bluewater lobbiest in the name of being good neighbors concerned with noise or law abiding citizens supporting the local boat cops. Â*You think it's about noise or boat cops or being a good neighbor to families with children? You think kissing Bluewater's ass will stop them from outlawing your boat in the end??

Like I said in my first post, this is pure bullsh*t!

jer

[Essex502]

This issue has been hashed over repeatedly here and on Hot Boat's website. The <span style='color:white'>[i]NEW</span>[/i noise laws are not so much <span style='color:white'>[i]NEW</span>[/i levels of noise enforcement but more consistent and measurable methods of enforcement. Each state has slowly moved the the SAE J1005 standard as it is a very easy to test against. The shoreline and driverby standards were very disputable in their measurement and hence most law enforcement agancies ignored them. No longer. I, for one, am well aware of the noise standard that was signed into law last year in California AB1555 sponsored by George Nakano of Torrance with funding from the Bluewater Network and you can see my comments here and on Hot Boat. The fact remains that these tree hugging groups are well organized and well funded and unless ALL boaters were to unite there is little to nothing we can do. We don't contribute sufficient funds to the politicians to be noticed.